Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

Options
123578

Comments

  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #122
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Your work already looks better than that installer's! :D

    Thanks! :)


    This was a lot to undertake! It's getting there. Freaking pain in the ass trusses though, they start running horizontally at one point which sucked trying to figure out, luckily I had photos of the house when the framing went up that I could reference and then it was a bit of poking around but it worked out (first picture below is the area where they run horizontal).

    33.jpg

    34.jpg

    35.jpg

    36.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • solarix
    solarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    #123
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Now you know why other installers charge more for tile roofs! At least its not curved tile - and you're lucky its not steep, although OSHA would still want you to be wearing fall protection. How are you going to cut holes in the tile? Good luck doing round holes with a masonry hole saw. Tip - get a 4-1/2" grinder and put what is called a "tuck-point blade" on it and cut square holes from the bottom of the tile. Wear a dust mask.
    Can't wait till your neighbors ask you to install their solar?
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #124
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Yeah, at least it's pretty easy to work up there and it's not that steep like you said...18º actually. It's nice too that there is a large patio cover area where I can setup the work area.

    For the tiles, that's actually what I was planning to do...square holes with a grinder. A buddy of mine that is coming to help tomorrow does tiles for a living and he has the tools.
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #125
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    One of the other nice things I've realized is that it's going to be very easy to expand this system in the future, and I'll be able to do it myself. The inverter is rated for up to 15,350 DC input and the breaker/wiring is being installed for that max amount right now, so I should be able to add 2,950 more watts, or about 10 panels and just interconnect them into the string since with SolarEdge you don't need the strings to be the same number of panels.
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #126
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Got what I expected to take two days done in one day today!
    All the posts are mounted to the roof...no more measuring, no more drilling, no more hammering.
    All that needs to be done now is the roof cement and cutting the tiles, which is planned for tomorrow.

    39.jpg

    40.jpg

    41.jpg

    42.jpg

    43.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #127
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Nice work !
    Do it well once .

    Look at all the shadows !!!! Just unbelievable !!!!!

    Were all drooling at the SUN !!! PNW and many others here are doing the sun dance .

    VT
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #128
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Yeah, damn neighbor and his two story house isn't helping with the shadows at all though...the SolarEdge stuff will at least make the system as efficient as possible given the situation.

    Worked a bit more up on the roof today but getting a little burnt out, probably will put it on hold till Friday. Had an unexpected hiccup this morning with two mounts that had no studs to grab on to since they run horizontally on that part of the roof, so had to go up in the attic and put in two blocks of 2x4s to create a spot for the roof mounts to grab onto. That was a lot of fun.

    Haven't been able to get a hold of the original installer since last Tuesday, he won't answer my calls or texts.

    Oh yeah, and Santa came early this year! :p

    44.jpg

    45.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #129
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Thats how mine came , but one pallet on the other stacked. X2 . 72 cell in 305 watt 3.2mm glass it looks like.
    You got 48 panels ?

    I wasn't saying the shadows were bad in your pix (Joking ) , But if your in daylight without shadows , they you would know grey days
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #130
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    CDN_VT wrote: »
    Thats how mine came , but one pallet on the other stacked. X2 . 72 cell in 305 watt 3.2mm glass it looks like.
    You got 48 panels ?

    I wasn't saying the shadows were bad in your pix (Joking ) , But if your in daylight without shadows , they you would know grey days

    Ah now I gotcha, heh, yeah...not too many grey days here in Phoenix. :)

    I got 40 panels, 310W each.
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #131
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Finally figured out the dilemma with the holes in the tile...was going to use a grinder with a diamond wheel but was was taking kind of long (having to make 4 cuts) and wasn't a very clean cut. Tried out a diamond tip hole saw and works great, though I need to order a bigger one off Amazon, Home Depot only had a 2" and it's too small to drop down over the cone all the way.

    49.jpg

    48.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #132
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    For my Caulking of preference of semi-fixed to FIXED ,, I use urethane in Black semi-flexible , Costs twice as much as roofers goo , But we glue in windshields in with the non-flexible type that is UV set. Think AIR BAGS , SRS , The front windscreen is part of an SRS system .
    After caulking , be sparing & it glues anything . Use spit on your finger to smooth it after. Find it at a real / REAL glass install store , it has a best B4 date . The Zone & others sell seconds .


    VT

    Edit Add: http://www.proformproducts.com/en/products/sealers/urethane-sealers/urethane-sealer-adhesive/
    There are many type they do sell , but for professional use , there not listed on the web .#225 & 226 are no flex for SRS (dont use ) From 210 to 226 is the range . I think it is 224 or 223 in black (so you can see coverage ) . Nice hole , so After all the holes are done I would use Nitrate gloves (this is not nice to clean , use 3m paint busters to remove from skin) and on all of the inside hole drilling, I would prime the center hole with a smear all around the center & let dry , Use you glover finger to ream it into the pours & when tile is installed you now have two smother surfaces to caulk making a better seal .

    Just what I would use & do .

    VT
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #133
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    I used the Locktite S30 roof and flashing sealant, the specs looked good on it and they had a bunch available at Home Depot. :)

    Put in another 3 or so hours in today, wasn't going to work on it but I got a good 9 hours of sleep and felt motivated.

    Got all the roof cementing and reinforcing fabric done for all 100 standoffs. Next step will be to measure and cut the tiles on Friday and then do a second coat of roof cement before placing the tiles back in place. Should be done with all that on Friday and be able to start with the racking on Saturday. :woot:

    50.jpg

    51.jpg

    52.jpg

    53.jpg

    54.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #134
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Today's update...

    Put on the second coat of roofing cement over the reinforcing fabric before noon and then got to work on setting the tiles back in place, except for the ones that need holes drilled. For those, measured out a counterpoint of where the holes need to be drilled and marked them, ready for drilling tomorrow. I figure tomorrow I should actually be done with all the posts and be ready for the rails to go on!

    On a side note, I kind of feel that the whole roofing sealing is a bit overkill, at least for this climate. I still did it, because I don't think you can really have too much protection there...but come on...you have two 5/16 holes, which have roofing sealant in them...which are then tightened tight with a round base over top. Then you have a 9x9 flashing with a U shape of silicon. Then, you have a first layer of roofing cement, followed by reinforcing fabric, followed by another layer of roofing cement. And THEN, still not done, you have another flashing on top of the tile that as a collar around the standoff which itself has some roofing sealant on it.

    I mean really, if water managed to even get below the tiles in the first place (and many people out here report that the underlayment is usually dry even after raining)...it would then have to get past the two layers of roofing cement, and then past the U shape sealant, and then past the round standoff base, and past the sealant in the two 5/16" holes. That's just ridiculous.

    57.jpg

    58.jpg

    59.jpg

    60.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #135
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Hallelujah!!!

    Mounts are freaking DONE! Damn that was a lot of back breaking work today...took about 6 hours to cut probably 140 or so holes. Luckily a buddy of mine helped out, he did the measuring and fitting them back into place, I did the cutting.

    Had to break out the big-boy tools today...first time using one of these, cut like a hot knife through butter. That hole-saw was complete garbage, not only did it take forever to make one hole, but then the piece cut out would get stuck in the saw and it was a bitch to get it back out, took me literally 1 hour to do 6 tiles.

    I was thinking about painting the aluminum top flashing but I don't know, they are going to be covered by solar panels and you can barely even see them from ground level as is.

    The rails go on tomorrow!!

    62.jpg

    63.jpg

    64.jpg

    65.jpg

    66.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #136
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    67.jpg

    68.jpg

    69.jpg

    70.jpg

    71.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #137
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    I mean really, if water managed to even get below the tiles in the first place (and many people out here report that the underlayment is usually dry even after raining)...it would then have to get past the two layers of roofing cement, and then past the U shape sealant, and then past the round standoff base, and past the sealant in the two 5/16" holes. That's just ridiculous.

    You have never had a roof leak ! I once had a leak in the eves at the west end of the house, and it ran along the peak of the roof to the other end (east) of the house. Took ages to find. It was an old house, of redwood framing, (the water spots didn't show in the wood) and I finally spotted it while sitting in the attic in the rain, tracking it back to it's source. That water will travel everywhere !
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    · Share on Twitter
  • ramloui
    ramloui Solar Expert Posts: 109 ✭✭
    #138
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Looking very good!!!
    it looks like it was a lot of work. But you are now rewarded with a first class installation!

    Well done!
    Off-grid cabin in northern Quebec: 6 x 250 W Conergy panels, FM80, 4 x 6V CR430 in series (24V nominal), Magnum MS4024-PAE
    · Share on Twitter
  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #139
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    mike95490 wrote: »
    You have never had a roof leak ! That water will travel everywhere !

    I agree 1000% Mike & they only leak in storm season !!
    We had a roofing company do our house & then second rain it was leaking , roofers did the hide & evade , we pulled a 3 month old roof & redid it ourselves, then got there shirts in court, with many other's. We were better than most who lost every dime. After that we roofed 6 more buildings on the ranch our selves.
    Now we do mostly in house or bring in pros from Alberta-Vancouver -USA. On the rock it's a huge gamble .
    VT
    · Share on Twitter
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
    #140
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    HX_Guy wrote: »
    That hole-saw was complete garbage, not only did it take forever to make one hole, but then the piece cut out would get stuck in the saw and it was a bitch to get it back out, took me literally 1 hour to do 6 tiles.

    Pro Tip when using hole saws. Rotate the drill in in a circular and angular manner. This will allow for a hole that is approx. 1/10" larger than the hole saw bit. The material left in the hole saw bit will now be a hundred times easier to remove. As with most things, technique is everything.

    I own over fifty hole saw bits. Sometimes you really need a nice, neat, and deep hole.

    Congrats on surviving and conquering a tough install!!!
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
    · Share on Twitter
  • solarix
    solarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    #141
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    I believe I warned you the Quickmount system would be a lot of work... And even with all that it still is not truly a flashed system because the lower flashing is relying on sealant to waterproof the tar paper. If the tar paper seam happens to fall in the right place (never happens), you can slip the flashing under it but otherwise you are just gluing it down. Anyway, good job - you can be on my crew anytime....
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #142
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    solarix wrote: »
    I believe I warned you the Quickmount system would be a lot of work... And even with all that it still is not truly a flashed system because the lower flashing is relying on sealant to waterproof the tar paper. If the tar paper seam happens to fall in the right place (never happens), you can slip the flashing under it but otherwise you are just gluing it down. Anyway, good job - you can be on my crew anytime....

    That you did!

    About the waterproofing though, isn't it relaying on the wet patch roof cement to seal it? That seems to be the product to use when doing roof work.
    Besides that, like I mentioned earlier, you are really just trying to waterproof those two 5/16" holes...with have sealant inside them, and then the Q Base that compresses everything down, and then the U shape roof sealant under the subflashing, and then two layers of roofing cement. I can't imagine water every making it to those two 5/16" holes...if there is even much of any water making it's way under the tiles in the first place.
    · Share on Twitter
  • solarix
    solarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    #143
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Oh I agree. The Quickmount system will work, but they make a big deal out of "respect the roof" and flashed systems, and then when it comes down to it in sealing the tarpaper - its good ol' roof patch cement. If that is OK, then may as well go with the tile-trac system and save a ton of work.
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #144
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    What they need to do is change the damn name, Quick Mount my ass. :p
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,448 admin
    #145
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    That marketer sure earned their salary that day.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
    #146
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    I'll bet that a very large percentage of roofs are ultimately dependent on "that black goop" as one of their best lines of defense. Stuff works. Too bad that it isn't pretty. How long does the black goop stay viable as the ultimate defense? Depends on several things I'll bet.

    I've sealed some pretty big gaps with foam rod and black goop.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #147
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Today's update:

    Finished up the mounts this morning by doing a ring of sealant around the standoff and then putting on the rubber collar then got to work installing the rails. I'm basically done for now because I'm out of L foots and I need more railing. The installer said he will bring more, but that was when I last talked to him 2 weeks ago so who knows, may have to order them myself so probably won't get to work on it again until next weekend (which is probably best anyway, need to do some actual work this week plus I'm beat as hell).

    [img][/img]72.jpg

    73.jpg

    74.jpg

    75.jpg

    76.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #148
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    77.jpg

    78.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #149
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Worked a bit more on the project this morning, did as much as I could given I'm out of railing...would have been nice if I had all the railing, could have gotten everything to a point of just the panels being put in place.

    Started out with replacing the installers crappy $2 zip-ties with what you're supposed to use, aluminum wire clips...

    86.jpg

    80.jpg

    Then I installed grounding jumpers between spliced rails (original installed apparently had no plan of doing this?).

    81.jpg

    85.jpg

    And finally put in Weeb grounding lugs to run the bare copper wiring through and connect/ground all the rails together.

    87.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • solarix
    solarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    #150
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Plastic ZIP ties - the hallmark of a crappy installer. Even the "good" UV stabilized black ties last about 2 years max in the Arizona heat. Even though they may be out of the sun/in the shade - the plastic resins still dry out and the they fall apart. Don't plan on those rubber standoff boots lasting 25 years either. Also, make sure you don't have any of the wiring exposed to the sun. Good thing you are doing the install this time of year. Can you imagine doing all that tile cutting in the summer?
    · Share on Twitter
  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #151
    Options
    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    I actually bought some heavy duty zip ties as well, thinking they would supplement the metal clips, though it doesn't really seem that I need them? These here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005LTJ6SC

    As for the rubber boot, it's EPDM rubber which is supposed to be great on roofs. Either way, there is also a roofing sealant underneath and it's really only so water doesn't get under the roof tile, which even if it does you still have the tar paper. Plus the standoffs are under the panels so rain won't directly hit them anyway.

    But yeah, I can't even imagine don't my this work in the summer. I don't know how construction workers work out here in the summer.
    · Share on Twitter

Categories