Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #212
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Installed should read assembled correctly .

    VT
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #213
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Put together a timeline of everything based on emails, text messages and posts on here. May come in useful in the future.
    Unbelievable how long I've been dealing with this.

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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #214
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    HX_Guy wrote: »
    Put together a timeline of everything based on emails, text messages and posts on here. May come in useful in the future.
    Unbelievable how long I've been dealing with this.
    After 7 bids from reputable companies this is the Installer you chose so you could pay with Barter $$$, not working out so good. Maybe Barter and Solar don't mix to good.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #215
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Oh no, I held 33% back until the system was commissioned. The project was done in several draws with specifics for each draws completions.
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #216
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    BlackCherry
    How did you know it was a ""you could pay with Barter $$$"

    If thats the case , No need for a Lawyer , I didn't think I read that on this thread !

    VT
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #217
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.

    Just got off the phone with the installer (called him). Asked him what is going on with the project, he said he is picking up the permit (he thought I had it for some reason, I told him previously I had a copy of it from the city) and fixing what they asked for on the permit. I asked if he is redoing the permit vs changing the wiring, and he said he is doing both because the inspector noted that the PV meter socket model is not specified on the permit and to either specify it on the permit or get a letter of clarification form the design company. I don't know why he is electing to resubmit the permit vs the letter...to buy time I can only assume?

    He acknowledged that he received my email and he said "I'm going to get what the inspector requested fixed and I'm going to get the city inspection passed and the APS inspection passed and be done with this. If you want to go about talking to the city, and to the inspector and all that, you go ahead but you're not going to tell me how to run my company, I'm going to run my company. This is the worst job I've ever had in my life. If you want to report me to the registrar of contractors and not pay me and hire an attorney, fine do what you need to do."

    I told him this wouldn't have been the worst job of his life if he would have just done it properly from the start. I asked what kind of timeframe are we looking at and he said he is going to resubmit with the city tomorrow and when it's approved he is going to come out and redo the wiring.

    Again to me it sounds like he's trying to buy some time, there is no reason to resubmit the permit especially that I told him I already received something from the designer to clarify the PV meter socket model. I think to that again he said he is going to do it how he wants to do it and he is going to run his business, not me.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #218
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    CDN_VT wrote: »
    BlackCherry
    How did you know it was a ""you could pay with Barter $$$"

    If thats the case , No need for a Lawyer , I didn't think I read that on this thread !

    VT
    Read it then. This all a dance being played out here to see who comes out on top.

    HX_Guy wrote: »
    The reason I went with this installer is because they are part of a business barter group that we are as well and I could pay for half the project that way, otherwise their pricing was pretty much on par with other installers...but it was a "cash out of pocket" savings of $14,500.
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #219
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    Read it then. This all a dance being played out here to see who comes out on top.

    How is that relevant to a competent install?
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #220
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    HX_Guy wrote: »
    How is that relevant to a competent install?
    You went looking for a Barter deal and you got one. Most competent contractors actual run a company and pay their employees and suppliers with real money and wouldn't touch a flim flam install like you went for.

    How many of his installs did you go and Inspect and get recommendations from the homeowners ??
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #221
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    You went looking for a Barter deal and you got one. Most competent contractors actual run a company and pay their employees and suppliers with real money and wouldn't touch a flim flam install like you went for.

    How many of his installs did you go and Inspect and get recommendations from the homeowners ??

    We've used plenty of other contractors on barter and it worked out just fine. You obviously have a bias against bartering for some reason.
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #222
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    Re: Solar install going very bad - looking for some help/advice please.
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    Read it then. This all a dance being played out here to see who comes out on top.


    I did mis that & now enlightened .

    I kinda wonder why owner was involved when he wasn't the contractor & sub out ..

    Thank U BC.

    VT
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #223
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    Final update on this thread.

    Project was approved this morning but between the last time I updated and today, this is what happened....


    The installer came back out to fix the items requested by the inspector. Fixed them, but incorrectly. He used 3/4" conduit up on the roof instead of 1" as specified on the permit (the permit was modified from 1" to 3/4" but only on the AC side, not the DC side). Inspector came back out yesterday morning and failed it again. I called the installer and texted him, no reply.

    Tired of waiting and honestly not trusting ANYTHING the installer can do (not one thing he did was correct, not ONE), I redid the work myself. Replaced the conduit, replaced all of the MC4 connectors (ALL were badly crimped). Rescheduled the inspection for this morning and it passed.

    Installer's crimping using pliers. The PV wires pulled right out with minimal effort.
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    My crimping using $40 MC4 crimping tool off Amazon.
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    Replaced the 3/4" conduit he installed with 1"
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #224
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    Added conduit where the installer didn't.
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    Realigned panels since they were installed offset by the installer.
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    Painted conduit at side of house. Still need to paint the roof top conduit.
    269.jpg


    And that about sums it up. Thanks to everyone who helped with advice in this thread, I greatly appreciate it.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,448 admin
    #225
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    Wow--About time to contact the Contractor's license board or possibly report to the solar panel/gt inverter companies that there "representative" is having "issues".

    That would be criminal if there was a fire and loss of life or property.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #226
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    BB. wrote: »
    Wow--About time to contact the Contractor's license board or possibly report to the solar panel/gt inverter companies that there "representative" is having "issues".

    That would be criminal if there was a fire and loss of life or property.

    -Bill

    I already filed a formal complaint with the Arizona Registrar of Contractor's about 2 weeks ago. Need to actually follow up and see what is going on with that. This contractor does not deserve to have a license.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,448 admin
    #227
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    You might point them to this thread about what can happen with a "poor" solar install: [h=3]Panel Fire Question[/h] Those poor crimps are just the thing for causing Arc Faults (sustained arcing as the connection fails):

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Putting-Out-The-Solar-Panel-Fire-Threat

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #228
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    Wow pretty scary stuff. Luckily I stumbled across one bad connector that the installer did, by accident I should add, which led me to inspect the remaining ones and in turn replace them all.

    Also my inverter has built in arc-fault protection as a back up so at least that gives me some piece of mind as well.
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  • ramloui
    ramloui Solar Expert Posts: 109 ✭✭
    #229
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    Great installation HX_Guy!! How about going in business for yourself? Either get paid for a compliant install outright or get paid fixing what the other guys are doing wrong...
    Off-grid cabin in northern Quebec: 6 x 250 W Conergy panels, FM80, 4 x 6V CR430 in series (24V nominal), Magnum MS4024-PAE
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #230
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    ramloui wrote: »
    How about going in business for yourself?

    You know I'm actually thinking about it...
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #231
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    Well so much for the Registrar of Contractors doing anything. Got a call from them today...

    "Hello, we'd like to come out and do a site inspection...unless everything has already been fixed?" kierf.gif

    I told the guy they came back out to fix the items, again incorrectly, failed inspection again...so I fixed the items, and it passed. Guy says "Well, if we can't verify the complaints there really isn't much that we can do about it, we'll have to close the case."

    I expressed my concern to him on how this company is doing very poor work that goes un-inspected, I thought maybe the ROC would be a bit more pro-active and look into the company themselves but apparently not. I asked if the contract submitted a written answer to the allegations like the letter sent to them requested, and of course they haven't. The ROC actually said that that is more of a request, not something legally binding of them to do.

    Funny, a buddy of mine actually told me that he's heard doing an ROC complaint is pointless because even though the ROC tried to come off as protecting the consumer, they are really built more to protect the contract since that is who pays them through renewal fees and such. I guess it's true.
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  • Alaska Man
    Alaska Man Solar Expert Posts: 252 ✭✭
    #232
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    In my ever so humble opinion...........It's all a rigged game, from Corporate Protections to Lying Politicians. Smoke and Mirror's designed to separate, exhaust and confuse.

    Welcome to Mushrooms World, where we are all kept in the dark and fed manure...............

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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #233
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    Freaking finally!!! It's a wrap folks! :D

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  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    #234
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    Congratulations on persevering where many would have just thrown up their hands in defeat..
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  • tonystewart
    tonystewart Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭
    #235
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    Scares me to death, I'm not looking forward to my "ground based" plan
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