Ok, this time I am serious (Texas)

Hey12
Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
*Hope this is right thread area*

I just purchased some solar panels (4 Kyocera model# KC130TM) I thought at a really great price.  I want to run these panels directly for my koi pond pump. I am not sure as to what exactly besides the panels I will need.  The pump is a Little Giant WGP-95-PW Direct Drive Dual Discharge Pump - 4280 GPH. If this worked, it would definitely save on my energy bill. Any thoughts on exactly what I will need to get this running?
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  • MichaelK
    MichaelK Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Have you bought your charge controller, batteries, and inverter yet?
    System 1) 15 Renogy 300w + 4 250W Astronergy panels,  Midnight 200 CC, 8 Trojan L16 bat., Schneider XW6848 NA inverter, AC-Delco 6000w gen.
    System 2) 8 YingLi 250W panels, Midnight 200CC, three 8V Rolls batteries, Schneider Conext 4024 inverter (workshop)
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,599 admin
    #3
    I will close this thread... It is best to only have one discussion for your solar setup--Avoid confusion and people answering your questions in separate threads.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2020 #4
    Looks like that pump uses 700watts of power and designed to work on 115 volts AC electric...

    Considering that the 4-130 watt panels are likely to produce an average of 400 watt sin direct sunlight and you are likely to average 4-5 hours of direct sunlight per-day, I'd sell the panels... and stop thinking about it...

    Consider the panels make 2000 watthours perday (likely on the high side) and storage and inverting (switching DC to AC) you will lose half of that...
    ....and the pump uses 700 watt x 24 hours a day = 16,800watthours. it's not realistic. Consider I have a 5000 watt array and wouldn't consider that load...

    Cut and run!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,599 admin
    #5
    OK, I will leave this thread open... More responses. (move other posts here):

    -Bill

    • mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,971 ✭✭✭✭✭
      4:02PM edited 4:03PM 174.194.196.69#2
      What is the sticker on the back of the panels :
      Vmp __
      Voc__
      Imp__
      Ioc__
      max series fuse__

      And then, what is the power requirements for your pump
      Volts DC  ___
      Amps DC  ___
      Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    • BBBB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,949 admin
      The short answer--It will be fairly expensive to setup a solar power + battery + AC inverter system to run your 700 Watt @ 110 VAC split capacitor pump.

      It does depend on what you are trying to do... Do you want a system that only runs during daylight? Do you want 24 hour a day operation? Do you have AC power available to the pump?

      If you are trying to save money... First you should measure the power used by the existing pump with a KIll-a-Watt type meter:

      https://www.amazon.com/s?k=kill-a-watt+meter&crid=1Q15KNJUHJJFA&sprefix=kill-a-watt,aps,281&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_11

      You will find a 700 Watt motor running 24x7x30 days a month--That is as much power as the average North American home uses in a month:
      • 700 Watts = 0.7 kWatts
      • 0.7 kWatts * 24 hours per day * 30 Days per month = 504 kWH per month (average home uses around 500-1,000 WH per month)
      Typically, with solar power, you try to find the smallest/most efficient "device" you can that does just what you need (and perhaps limited hours per day)--All to save energy usage.

      We can go into great depth of design--But it probably would not be cost effective for you just to power this as a pond pump.

      The cheapest and easiest method to solar power on a home is to install a "Grid Tied" solar power system. Basically, solar array + GT AC Inverters which connect directly to your main breaker panel. You (usually) need a building permit, utility approval, and an electrician/solar installer (can be a DIY project--But lots of details to work out first).

      GT Solar is usually very cost effective--However, there can be issues (local utility may not allow, HOA may have issues, you need roof/land clear of trees/buildings/shade to get direct sunlight, etc.).

      -Bill

      Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 812 ✭✭✭✭
      Looks like that pump is listed as 115v@6.3 amps. 700 watts. That's a lot of power, depending how many hours per day you want to run.
      Seems like an application for a DC pump (or more in parallel if needed)
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    #6
    MichaelK said:
    Have you bought your charge controller, batteries, and inverter yet?
    Sorry so late, I thought an email would shoot with replies but I never got anything.  I haven't purchased anything yet.
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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    #7
    Photowhit said:
    Looks like that pump uses 700watts of power and designed to work on 115 volts AC electric...

    Considering that the 4-130 watt panels are likely to produce an average of 400 watt sin direct sunlight and you are likely to average 4-5 hours of direct sunlight per-day, I'd sell the panels... and stop thinking about it...

    Consider the panels make 2000 watthours perday (likely on the high side) and storage and inverting (switching DC to AC) you will lose half of that...
    ....and the pump uses 700 watt x 24 hours a day = 16,800watthours. i
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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    #8
    Photowhit said:
    Looks like that pump uses 700watts of power and designed to work on 115 volts AC electric...

    Considering that the 4-130 watt panels are likely to produce an average of 400 watt sin direct sunlight and you are likely to average 4-5 hours of direct sunlight per-day, I'd sell the panels... and stop thinking about it...

    Consider the panels make 2000 watthours perday (likely on the high side) and storage and inverting (switching DC to AC) you will lose half of that...
    ....and the pump uses 700 watt x 24 hours a day = 16,800watthours. it's not realistic. Consider I have a 5000 watt array and wouldn't consider that load...

    Cut and run!
    It wouldn't be running all day.  We usually only run during the warmest part of the day which equates to about 4-6 hours.  If it isn't possible, thank you though.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,599 admin
    #9
    Hey12, and others:

    Here is a link you can use to adjust your email/popup notifications:

    https://forum.solar-electric.com/profile/preferences/

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    #10
    BB. said:
    Hey12, and others:

    Here is a link you can use to adjust your email/popup notifications:

    https://forum.solar-electric.com/profile/preferences/

    -Bill
    This helped, thank you
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Could a smaller capacity pump work, if so using a brushless DC pump with pump controller directly off the panels without converting to AC or needing batteries would work. The one I recently purchased is 300W, 800 Gph (50 Lpm) at 6' head, 400W PV or greater recommend, cost ~$170 everything included to install except the panels, pumps as long as there is sufficient power available from the array.

     
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    #12
    mcgivor said:
    Could a smaller capacity pump work, if so using a brushless DC pump with pump controller directly off the panels without converting to AC or needing batteries would work. The one I recently purchased is 300W, 800 Gph (50 Lpm) at 6' head, 400W PV or greater recommend, cost ~$170 everything included to install except the panels, pumps as long as there is sufficient power available from the array.

     Great idea!

    Indeed. 

    Slowly but surely it's starting to be clear to me what the setup would need. In my case, it looks as though maybe I should go with a smaller pump. They may now make similar outputs with less wattage. Panels, batteries, charge controller, inverter. Unless I of course decided to go with a DC sort of pump that could filter the pond. The last thing is figuring how to wire the panels since the conjunction box didn't come pre-wired. 

    Refer to this link: https://www.cedgreentech.com/article/how-wire-solar-junction-box

    I wouldn't want to hurt anyone so an off-grid would be safer for me and the utility workers.

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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    edited September 2020 #13
    Thank you for the reply bill.  It would not be running 24/7.  Just during the peak of the day around 4-6 hours.
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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    edited September 2020 #14
    I'll look into the grid-tied system a bit more, thank you for your response.
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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    edited September 2020 #15
    I can always power the aerator and not the pump.  Thank you for your reply
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  • Hey12
    Hey12 Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    #16
    ok, so as far as the wiring goes on the panels themselves, they don't come preinstalled with mc4 connectors.  Instead, they look like the pictures below.  Should I be going with the cables in the attached link and run these in parallel?  https://www.amazon.com/Solinba-Solar-Extension-Adaptor-Connector/dp/B01L04RGPQ ? 
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