DIY solar project at 10,000'

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

Well I finally quit talking about it and started the solar project up on the mountain. We worked on it so hard we barely ate some days and definitely didn't take as many pics as I should have. The project took us a solid 4 weeks of working pretty much every single day. All solar components, except the panels, purchased from NAWS. Unfortunately I learned about NAWS after I had already bought the panels.

We had to have a place to put all the solar components so we built our first ICF building. A couple buddies helped me stack all the styrofoam and put the rebar in place. 8" thick concrete core. 18 yards of concrete total in the walls alone. 2 by 12s with spray foam for the roof. Inside dimensions of approximately 10 by 16. I say approximately because we had to move the walls around on the footer to get the embedded vertical rebar centered in the styrofoam walls. We made the footer 24" wide just so we would have some cushion for something like this and because I like overkill.

A couple buddies helped me out with the project. The guy in the sunglasses helped us for 3-4 days.

None of my projects would have ever been possible without this guy, Marvin!

More stacking...

Rain couldn't stop us from stacking!

Finally we got it ready for concrete. Well, plus a ton of "mountain bracing" that I wish I had gotten a pic of. We basically cut a bunch of aspen poles to brace it with.

So we called in the pump truck. Of course it rained the day before and he got stuck.... The driver was ready to say forget it, no way he could make it up there. The little Cat skid steer was just enough to help drag him up the rest of the way. Wish I had a pic of that too! The driver was GREAT and didn't mind giving some guidance along the way to a first time ICF'er.

On to the solar pole mount. It is a MT Solar 9 panel pole mount. MT Solar recommended an 8" pipe in a 4'x4'x5' hole with ~3 yards of concrete to withstand 90mph winds. I did a 10" pipe in a 5'x5'x6' hole with ~6 yards of concrete. Then we filled the 10" pipe with concrete as well. Did I mention I like over kill?

saddled the pipe and welded some 4" drill steel to the bottom to keep the snow from eventually shoving the pipe through the concrete (sounds crazy but it happens all the time up there).

Holding a 17' long 10" pipe plumb while you pour concrete is no easy task!

Some pics of the MT Solar mount and my son helping me tighten bolts. This thing is no joke! I am very impressed! Extremely heavy duty and my Grandmother could adjust the tilt. You leave the center panel out, use the chain hoist to raise the array and lock it down. Then just install the last panel in the hole. Worked just like they showed it on youtube!

Estragon · August 2017

Nice! Looks like a lovely spot.

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

All panels installed. Nine 345 watt Solar World panels. 3,105 watts. Panels are ~125' from the solar shed. Used 6awg wire for the run.

We knew we weren't going to get perfect sun in that spot due to some trees that need to go. The trees were going to be gone eventually anyway so we went ahead and put it there. Then I noticed the panels were completely shaded by 3:00. Couldn't have that so we sped up the tree removal.

Luckily, Marvin is the master of clean up on the skid steer.

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Not too bad looking now. All seeded with Sainfoin and Durana clover.

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

On to the electronics....

Wiring up electricity is not my specialty to say the least so I paid a little extra and got my "epanel" prewired. After that it was pretty much plug and play. So easy even a caveman, me, could do it.

Magnum 4400 watt split phase inverter with a midnight solar classic 200 charge controller. All pre assembled as part of the "epanel".

Inverter/epanel/charge controller combo on the left. Sub panel in the middle and a heavy duty, electronic 230v timer on the right.

690 amp hour, 48V battery bank. We made all the battery cables ourselves out of 2/0 welding cable. It was a little scary making the final connections on this bad boy. It just felt like I was hooking up jumper cables backwards or something. Marvin got way back and I just kind of turned my face the other direction. Luckily I didn't screw anything up!

Wiring needs to be cleaned up but here it is currently.

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

A few snapshots of the numbers we are making.

Our highest output so far, but I think we will beat it. The altitude actually allows us to produce MORE than the panels are rated for! Finally, ONE advantage to being on the mountain!

Our best overall day so far, over 10KWH, but I think we will beat it too.

Raj174 · August 2017

@Wbuffetjr1
You did a really nice job on your install. Don't forget to take advantage of the local app to monitor and manage the Classic. Just connect the Classic to a network with a PC or notebook computer.

Rick

Horsefly · August 2017

Awesome job Chad!!!! Great install, at what (I can personally atest to) is a great place! You did good!

mcgivor · August 2017

Nice job, you certainly didn't skimp especially when it came to concrete and steel, one minor thing of note, in the battery shot, it would be better to attach the positive and negative to opposite corners of the bank, the way it is, it would favour the middle string and cause load and discharge imbalance which can lead to premature battery failure.

westbranch · August 2017

will you be putting any sheet rock on the interior walls? The ICF styro burns like crazy upon ignition.... I have 5/8 fire rated sheet rock then a 2 x 4 on side (2") of air and then 1/2 plywood to mount my Epanel inverter etc to...

Photowhit · August 2017

What McGivor said on the battery wiring, The inner string has a good bit less resistance and I really don't like 3 heavy wire lugs bolted down on a battery post! I would much rather see 3 separate going to a buss bar of some type. or as McGivor said to opposite ends.

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

Thanks everyone!

I am planning on correcting the batteries when I go back out there in 4 weeks. I bought some 3/8"x1.5" copper bar to build two buss bars out of. Not sure if it matters or not, but I was going to connect the main leads to opposite ends of each buss bar.

Yes I am planning to sheetrock over the styrofoam. I just ran out of time this trip. Will have to get that and siding for the building done next summer.

While I am gone, I have a 1 HP motor running on the timer 7 hours per day providing aeration to the lake.

mcgivor · August 2017

Pick up an 1"1/4 plastic bushing for where the cables enter and where any other cables pass through knockouts unprotected , sorry just the electrician in me noticing details

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

Yes sir, will do! Thanks again!

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

Raj174 said:

@Wbuffetjr1
You did a really nice job on your install. Don't forget to take advantage of the local app to monitor and manage the Classic. Just connect the Classic to a network with a PC or notebook computer.

Rick

I have the hardware for the remote monitoring. That is another area I do not totally understand so I am trying to work through it. Cell service up there is horrendous. Getting better every year though as we clear more trees. I have a Wilson cell booster with a directional antenna for the cabin that works so so. It will give you at least enough signal to text from inside the cabin which is otherwise impossible. I only have one antenna inside the cabin but can run two. I was thinking about running an antenna out to the solar shed through the 2" conduit with the power line for the cabin. I just don't know if that would put out enough cell signal for the remote monitoring to operate consistently.

jonr · August 2017

You ran an exposed ground wire with rods on both ends?

mike95490 · August 2017

On the pic with the Epanel and Shunt. is that a gray cable with a hammer crimp on the Lug ?
Are your battery cables hydraulic crimp or hammered crimps ?

simply hooking the Classic to a port on a router, puts it on a wi-fi network and you have wireless monitoring with the Midnight Local App.

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

jonr said:

You ran an exposed ground wire with rods on both ends?

Yes, I put a ground rod in at the panels with a ground wire going up to the combiner box. I connected the combiner box to the epanel with a ground wire. Then I ran a ground wire from the epanel to a 2nd ground rod. The two ground rods are not yet directly linked with a connecting ground wire. Just recently learned that I need to connect the two. .

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

mike95490 said:

On the pic with the Epanel and Shunt. is that a gray cable with a hammer crimp on the Lug ?
Are your battery cables hydraulic crimp or hammered crimps ?

simply hooking the Classic to a port on a router, puts it on a wi-fi network and you have wireless monitoring with the Midnight Local App.

Mike that part of the wiring came with the prewired unit. I did not install that.

The battery cables are all hydraulically crimped by me.

Unfortunately there is no wifi signal, router or anything else up there. We are talking a remote location. The closet grid power to me is far far away. I could pay to have a tower installed and then sign up with an internet service for $100 or so a month, but don't really want to commit to that. I was hoping there would be a cellular option for signal that would be much cheaper.

littleharbor2 · August 2017

In Baja we are 30 miles south of San Felipe. many people, myself included, have 4g signal boosters with yagi directional antennas. This gives us a strong enough signal that we use our phone hot spot app for internet.

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

littleharbor2 said:

In Baja we are 30 miles south of San Felipe. many people, myself included, have 4g signal boosters with yagi directional antennas. This gives us a strong enough signal that we use our phone hot spot app for internet.

I have a Wilson AG Pro 75 with a directional yagi. At the time it was the most powerful booster you could get from Wilson and they can't even sell them in the U.S. anymore. It still gets us just enough signal to be able to send texts (most of the time). I just don't know if that is enough signal to be able to reliably connect to the system remotely. I also do not live there full time so cell phone hot spot would not work for the rest of the year while we aren't there.

Estragon · August 2017

I have a similar booster setup, and found that it won't work well or at all using the 1900mhz band, but usually does okay on the 850 band. Phone, hotspot, and booster can normally use either band, so I had to modify the settings with a profile that won't use the 1900 band.

The higher frequency allows for higher data rates but doesn't go as far or through tree branches as well as the lower frequency. The phone will appear to have service, but won't actually work much of the time.

Even though the lower band works okay, the latency appears to be too high for MyMidnite to work. At some point I may rig up local "black box" monitoring with something like a raspberry pi that I could log into remotely. Midnite is also supposed to be developing something along those lines. If I left monitoring and booster etc. on while away, I would likely put it on it's own small battery and charging system.

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

Estragon said:

I have a similar booster setup, and found that it won't work well or at all using the 1900mhz band, but usually does okay on the 850 band. Phone, hotspot, and booster can normally use either band, so I had to modify the settings with a profile that won't use the 1900 band.

The higher frequency allows for higher data rates but doesn't go as far or through tree branches as well as the lower frequency. The phone will appear to have service, but won't actually work much of the time.

This is exactly what I deal with up there! Phone looks like it has service but will barely send a text and will NOT send a text with a pic. Did you just dial the 1900mhz band all the way down and 850 all the way up? I actually called Wilson last week and went over this with them and they told me about a setting on my phone to change that should make a big improvement.

I am pretty much clueless about how to make any type of connection, even cellular, to remote monitor. I don't know anything about the components needed or any how to. Pretty much caveman level here. I was just going to try to get the signal first and go from there. Start reading again lol.

littleharbor2 · August 2017

Is your booster a 4G version?

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

I am not sure. It has two dials on it to adjust the strength of the boost of either band 800mhz or 1900mhz.

Raj174 · August 2017

@Wbuffetjr1
The local area network connection that Mike and I were talking about would be either a ethernet cable, called a cat5e or a wireless connection that would connect the Classic to the cabin usually through a network switch or a wireless router where you might have a PC or laptop to monitor/manage the Classic with it's local app. The cell connection if/when you get it going could also connect to that switch or router for remote connection. Of course, if you only wanted to connect to the equipment remotely, then you would only need the cell connection by the equipment.

Rick

Estragon · August 2017

The bad news is changing the settings was a bit of an exercise in frustration. Cell reception had been okay at the cabin for some time, then one year it became unusable. Nothing had changed on my end and I eventually figured that the network side had changed to preferentially connect using 1900 band.

I first worked on the hotspot, a Sierra Wireless (now netgear) device. In a past life I was in the ISP business, so I know my way around some in networking devices. Found the extended 'AT' command set online for the radio, figured out the bitmapping in the frequency band list, and created a new list profile omitting the 1900 band with a simple terminal program through the usb port.

The hotspot has a web interface with a detailed status page which shows frequency band connected, so I could confirm the frequency theory by switching profiles and seeing which band was connected. Sure enough, 850 worked, but 1900 generally wouldn't.

Getting my phone to work was next. For some reason, the extended AT command set for my Samsung is a secret on par with nuclear launch codes. I talked to the 7 circles of support hell at both Samsung and the cell carrier, and no joy. 2 minutes with someone in engineering at the carrier likely would have done it, but "engineering isn't a customer facing function". You'd think engineering might benefit from contact with a moderately cluefull customer once in a while, especially where it concerns network setup that will affect lots of customers, but apparently not.

In the end, I found a code for a hidden engineering menu for the specific phone online and used that to set up a new profile.

Hopefully Wilson will be able to help you make a similar change. By setting up a separate profile, it's simple to toggle between settings. The carrier only uses 1900 in the city, so I switch profiles when there.

littleharbor2 · August 2017

Wbuffetjr1 said:

I am not sure. It has two dials on it to adjust the strength of the boost of either band 800mhz or 1900mhz.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/ys/yb6ir8xxcsw1.jpg

Mine has four dials. It is my understanding different cell carriers operate on different band ranges. Mine is ATT and their range is in the middle dials range. I cant recall what the MHz range is but I was able to dial down the ranges I didn't need.

Estragon · August 2017

My booster doesn't have the ability to selectively alter gain on specific bands, so had to alter devices :-(

Probably want to be careful turning up one band too high, but turning the 1900mhz right down may help.

Wbuffetjr1 · August 2017

Raj174 said:

@Wbuffetjr1
The cell connection if/when you get it going could also connect to that switch or router for remote connection. Of course, if you only wanted to connect to the equipment remotely, then you would only need the cell connection by the equipment.

Rick

Thanks for the help Rick! I am not totally lost on the LAN and router part. What I am un clear about is what device do I need to look for that will "connect" to the cell signal the booster puts out? Will that basically be a "hotspot" device from my cell carrier? Like a jetpack from Verizon? Then a router, maybe wireless, to connect to that? I am just totally lost on what exactly to install between the signal from the booster and the classic to allow the system to connect.

Estragon - I hope I don't have to go through a process that extensive. If so, I might just throw the booster in the lake!! Wilson told me to basically disable LTE on my phone while I am up there and it would make a huge difference. They said the phone would try to use LTE even when there was a much better 3G signal. Why would you say becareful about turning up one band too high?

Littleharbor - I am pretty sure my booster must not be 4G.

Estragon · August 2017

Turning it up too much can cause feedback between the interior and exterior antennas. It could theoretically cause the carrier to reject the connection as well, but unlikely given the distance and potential output of the booster.

jonr · August 2017

If you have a booster and it works marginally, I'd upgrade the cell antenna.

DIY solar project at 10,000'

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