Reasons We Live Off-Grid

12467

Comments

  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #92
    Re: Reasons We Live Off-Grid
    Alaska Man wrote: »
    Great thread, Tony.

    We like many others could spend about $5,000 to run the "Man's System" onto the homestead, but why? We are our own power company, nobody sends me a bill every month. The power only goes out if I say it does and according to my wife, it brings out my "Inner Nerd".
    We want independence and not just because of the Mutant, Zombie, Bikers that may take over after the Aliens destroy Metropolis. I'm also proud that we are doing our part to reduce our carbon foot print and lesson the country's dependence on Oil.

    And that is a reasoned judgment, as long as you do not also hold the belief that you are saving money. The economics of battery banks for off grid are still (but hopefully not forever) such that even when you amortize the $5000 up front investment your power would be cheaper from POCO than from off grid unless your power needs are very small.
    Can you give us an estimate of your daily/monthly kWh consumption? From the pictures, I am guessing pretty low.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Alaska Man
    Alaska Man Solar Expert Posts: 252 ✭✭
    #93
    Re: Reasons We Live Off-Grid
    inetdog wrote: »
    And that is a reasoned judgment, as long as you do not also hold the belief that you are saving money. The economics of battery banks for off grid are still (but hopefully not forever) such that even when you amortize the $5000 up front investment your power would be cheaper from POCO than from off grid unless your power needs are very small.
    Can you give us an estimate of your daily/monthly kWh consumption? From the pictures, I am guessing pretty low.



    We are pretty conservative. In the summer we have plenty of sunshine to keep us ahead of our usage. In the winter we unplug the fridge and use a cold room, we heat with wood, use propane on demand hot water. Our use comes down to about 660AH a day. I never let my batteries get below 12.2V and that's under a load. If you google the rates for power in Fairbanks, Alaska I think you would be surprised. My elctric bill before I started down this journey was an average of $240/mnth being very conservative. At the farm I usually had between a $600-$700 electric bill in the winter. Heat tapes, Trucks plugged in etc. Now even in the dark of winter and having to charge with the generator a lot more I hardly ever burn more than $60 worth of gas/mnth.

    However, all that being said, I'm not doing this to save money. That's just a bonus.


    ETA........... this week I'm adding a 400W wind genny. So I hope to impact the winter generator run time. I'm also toying with the idea of adding a Thermo-Electric generator to the woodstove. The the stove is running 24/7 anyway. Why not add another 5-10 Amps/hr to help out? Hell, I may even get two........
    · Share on Twitter
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #94
    Re: Reasons We Live Off-Grid

    660AH at 12V, as in 7.9kWh? That is not all that small. You must have an awfully big battery bank to support that on a daily basis. Or is most of that coming from the generator?
    Taking 660AH daily out of an 880AH bank would be pretty bad! And your 960W array can only contribute on the order of 60AH/hour while the sun is high.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Alaska Man
    Alaska Man Solar Expert Posts: 252 ✭✭
    #95
    Re: Reasons We Live Off-Grid
    inetdog wrote: »
    660AH at 12V, as in 7.9kWh? That is not all that small. You must have an awfully big battery bank to support that on a daily basis. Or is most of that coming from the generator?
    Taking 660AH daily out of an 880AH bank would be pretty bad! And your 960W array can only contribute on the order of 60AH/hour while the sun is high.

    Well I got into this with another guy, I guess my figgerin is not correct.

    At 50% DOD the bank has 440AH usable, but like I said I never let my batteries get below 12.2 and that's with a load on them. I charge to 100% at night usually around by 9:00 p.m. at least once a week, if the sun didn't get me there during the day. Then we sit and watch T.V. (led) for another hour or so usually with 2 lights on, again LED about 4w each. For ghost loads and all the TriMetric tells me we average about 7-8amps constant draw on the battery bank.

    The fridge (Danby) uses 8-12amps during it's cycle.


    In the morning when we get going, the bank is anywhere from 88%-93% full. My day starts about 6:00 am and the bank will do okay with the water pump, lights and T.V. running to about 10:30am, when we are now reading about 72%-74% full from the TriMetric. This is when I start to get jumpy. Then the sun comes around and with full sun the array will get me back up to float by 2 or 3 in the afternoon. This is my non-generator day.

    So with all that I guess I'm not using 660AH like I thought?

    To be honest it would be nice to have a bigger battery, but there is only so much cash one can layout, before it just hurts too much to lighten ones carbon foot print any further.


    The peak I've seen from the array is high 700's Watt reading and low 60's amp reading on the Classic 150. I do have plans to add another 1KW to the array next summer or should I push that up?

    Thanks for taking the time to help out us beginners.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #96
    Re: Reasons We Live Off-Grid

    Your math sounds ok, you meant to say that your using about 220 amp hrs and have 660 amp left at 75 % SOC. Sounds like a balanced system for what you use.
    · Share on Twitter
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #97
    Re: Reasons We Live Off-Grid

    Reasons?
    Freedom
    Privacy
    Clean air
    Quiet
    Clean water
    Elbow room...I was able to build the big shop that I always wanted.
    Econ major...if the debt doesn't concern you, consider yourself lucky?
    I like to think of myself as more akin to an eagle than a sheep.

    Built this sunroom last year. Great heat engine when the sun shines. Keeps away some winter doldrums. Been building for over four years. Shoot, someday I'll have a kitchen that works and working plumbing during the winter.

    Attachment not found.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
    · Share on Twitter
  • Audiomaker
    Audiomaker Solar Expert Posts: 100 ✭✭
    #98
    For me... in short... so I know I can.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Wulfman
    Wulfman Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #99
    I live off grid for the freedom, the pleasure of knowing that i don't have to be tethered to the grid and if the SHTF I will still have the same lifestyle i have now. Been living off grid for 20 of the past 30 years. Just love the freedom.
    · Share on Twitter
  • just starting
    just starting Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭✭
    #100
    Just to piss off my first wife and to know I can
    200ah LiFePO4 24v Electrodacus Sbms40 quad breaker chest freezer to fridge- Samlex PST 1524 - Samlex pst3024  - 1hp shallow well pump-Marey 4.3 GPM on demand waterheater - mama bear Fisher wood burning stove, 30" fridgarair oven ,fridegaire dishwasher  Unique 290l stainless D.C. Fridge-unique 120l portable fridge/freezer 
    · Share on Twitter
  • Lumisol
    Lumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    #101
    3 words. Fortress of solitude.
    I like living with and among nature rather than fighting to keep it at bay.
    · Share on Twitter
  • katlupe
    katlupe Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭
    #102
    I live off the grid because I love the forest, nature and privacy.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Ocean
    Ocean Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭✭
    #103
    Hey @Ecnerwal

    look into used Lithiums from a Chevy Volt.  You might find a 16kWh batt for 3k.  Just need the right inverter to use them - like a Magnum...
    · Share on Twitter
  • kamchuka
    kamchuka Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    edited October 2017 #104
    Lot of different reasons but one of the big ones is I'm just tired of wasting my hours talking to idiots on the phone! I'd rather get a coffee enema than talk to comcast ever...period. every other day its an hour trying to fix something or get 12 dollars back from some "accidental" overcharge. We went flat rate gophones to avoid tmobile or the likes. We only have dish internet available and only have it so I can finish a degree I wont even use lol. we dont have heat if i dont chop wood, no power, no water.....etc. I guess I can call myself and transfer me to a dumber version of myself and I can ask to speak to the manager version of me and leave myself a voicemail and wait for me to call me back....then I'll call myself an a**hole and hang up because its not worth $4,32 to argue.
    900 watts pv (building on) on poles, off grid 60a mppt, magnum 2k 12v msw, 1400 ah forklift battery (rewired to 12v), 8k diesel gen for house. honda eu6500, 2x 8D, coleman 800w inv for shop, honda 5k for well (pumps to 1000g cistern), ryobi 2k suitcase for mobile ops. 
    · Share on Twitter
  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    #105
    I want to live off grid because after a life in corporate America, in the asphalt jungle, in hell...I want to be beholden to no one. I want to be able to flip a hearty freeway salute at the electric utilities, wherever they are. I want to be free...for the first time in my life. My solar system will provide great juice (it will be overbuilt for my needs) You'd have to ask my wife for hers.
    · Share on Twitter
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #106
    There exists a potentially large risk to living off the grid. Rural property taxes are often much more willy nilly than urban property taxes. For example, my 10' tall pole barn with steel siding is called a 20' tall steel shop by the county. So my property taxes are over $2100/year when they should be less than $600. 

    I have another undeveloped property that my experienced realtor says is worth about $11,000. The county says the "actual value" is about $46,000 and taxes me at $750/year. The neighbors have homes on their properties and pay the same amount in property tax.

    Side Note: I gross about $30,000 year and "net" about $15,000 before property taxes. Property taxes currently exceeding $9,000/year. That is an absolutely untenable financial quagmire. Moving unto a boat has not worked out. I consider a move to Chile at present. *I do require an ethical government with low risk of deciding to nationalize foreign investments.



    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
    · Share on Twitter
  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    #107
    We will be traveling in an RV. No property taxes. I make about 14,000 in combined pension and Social Security. Will will do about the same. We don't own property We'll be fine. I want out of Fereng...erm...American society as much as is possible.
    · Share on Twitter
  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    #108
    kamchuka said:
    Lot of different reasons but one of the big ones is I'm just tired of wasting my hours talking to idiots on the phone! I'd rather get a coffee enema than talk to comcast ever...period.
    I snipped the rest in respect to the "don't get me started" idea.

    The thing you can do is email the CEO (better yet, call him at Comcast HQ in Philly) and you'll be put in touch with the "Executive Customer Service Team" and they CAN get things done, but calling the 800-comcast gets you out to the Philippines where they read their script. Call Philly. Raise hell. Things get done, and DEMAND discounts for your trouble. Ask them what they're going to do to make all this up to you. If they balk, tell them Mr. Roberts (Brian, CEO of Comcast) won't like you calling his personal cell to complain. Even if you don't have it, it plants a seed of doubt. I'm sure there's a big, red "A" on my account at Comcast that stands for a-hoe. I hope they do. I earned it.
    · Share on Twitter
  • aksala
    aksala Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭
    #109
    Why? Because the utility quoted me a base of $90,000 to bring power to the property line less than half a mile away! 
    · Share on Twitter
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #110
    Speaking of quotes, the phone company ran wire to a demark box at my cabin, presumably as part of a government rural cyber-access blah-blah grant thing. I called them shortly after I bought the cabin to inquire about getting broadband. They couldn't tell me, because the property doesn't have a street address :smiley:
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
    · Share on Twitter
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #111
    Details account for evertything, in order to get grid power, I have two options, pay to have the transformer with poles installed around  $2000, or get 40 people who want grid in the area, then it's free. Been working on the demand, so far 20 confirmed, guess it's off grid for a while.... but then again battery costs are close to the connection fee, decisions to ponder :#
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #112
    mcgivor said:
    Details account for evertything, in order to get grid power, I have two options, pay to have the transformer with poles installed around  $2000, or get 40 people who want grid in the area, then it's free. Been working on the demand, so far 20 confirmed, guess it's off grid for a while.... but then again battery costs are close to the connection fee, decisions to ponder :#
    If you are already setup the continuing expenses of replacing batteries and electronics over time should be less that grid costs.

    It's pretty much why I'm still off grid. When I moved to my new place the grid literally ran through it, but where do you sell at year old forklift battery? That along with a good price then, 7 years ago, for solar panels, about 85 cents a watt delivered. Made the long term costs about the same. Since I used my existing inverter rather than replace it and have used electric water heater, I'm money head. Though a bit uncomfortable with 'sun showers once in a while during the fall.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Mangas
    Mangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018 #113
    The utility companies want it both ways. 

    Some of them complain independent rural solar set ups erode support for grid infrastructure yet they make hooking up uneconomic and without any up front cost sharing even if those customers might be willing to sell power back to them at or below market rates.

    Furthermore, in some parts of the U.S. the rural grid suffers from frequent outages and surges.

    Solar and battery hardware, application software and storage management technology will continue to steadily deliver best practices solar reliability, installation and system operating simplicity.

    To power a large modern equipped home like ours 24/7 using utility sourced power would cost $400 to $500 per month or about $5k to $6k per year.  Set of FLA batteries every 5 years about $24k. For us, the economics were pretty much cut and dried. 

    After 15 years, we are very satisfied with our 24/7 powered "off" grid alternative.  Stand alone solar prices have declined compared to the escalating costs of hooking to the grid.

    Just another perspective  :)








    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF Custom House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
    · Share on Twitter
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #114
    Adding to the perspective! The large Utility in California PG&E lost 2.5 billion dollars in the wildfires last year. It is said the lawsuits will be over 20 times that as they were found negligent by Cal Fire. 

    Guess who will pay for it?  Not me ;)

    I see the utility guy who said we would not make it thru the first winter decades ago. B)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

    · Share on Twitter
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #115
    If losses are 20x 2.5bn, you'll pay for at least some of it, one way or another. Say PG&E gives the keys to the state, that's maybe 20bn. Unlikely the other 30bn ends up on ratepayers statements.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
    · Share on Twitter
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #116
    California might slap a Tariff on Canada for the money ;)  If you don't pay we cut off the clean air going north.

    It will be interesting how the courts play this out. One thing is for sure, we are paying for decades of bad environmental policy managing our forests.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

    · Share on Twitter
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #117
    I dunno about clean air, but there does seem to be a lot of hot air coming north recently :smile:
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
    · Share on Twitter
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #118
    The hot air is from the California Air Resources Board. They make gasoline engines run poorly on special gasoline that gives you 20% less MPG for 20% more cost and shorter engine life. :#
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

    · Share on Twitter
  • bearqst
    bearqst Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
    #119
    Re: Reasons We Live Off-Grid

    Retired and getting back to a quiet living out if town to enjoy life and the woods.

    · Share on Twitter
  • Porschephanatic
    Porschephanatic Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭
    #120
    bearqst said:
    Re: Reasons We Live Off-Grid

    Retired and getting back to a quiet living out if town to enjoy life and the woods.

    +1  Someday soon.   B)
    · Share on Twitter
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #121
    What's this "retired" thing folks are talking about ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    · Share on Twitter

Categories