Windows 10 laptop is the slowest computer I have ever owned.

softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
This thing is basically - junk. I have to click on most things several times while waiting and hoping for an eventual response. Windows 10 strikes me as being designed for 6th graders as well. Why do they keep changing things?

Held unto Windows 7 as long as possible. We all know the story there - no longer works with several programs like Turbo Tax. 

Tried to change performance in settings. Nothing can be done - like a car with no gas pedal. It simply accelerates very slowly until you let off. Junk. 

Options? My experiments with Linux led me to believe that Linux is best for computer honchos. I'm not that serious. But I do want the performance that I enjoyed back in, well, 1995 to 2019. 
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
«1

Comments

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,587 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I did notice that the latest 'upgrade' made windoz defender the primary virus protection and disabled and 'removed?' my Media player Classic 32, I installed the 64 bit version most of my media files still show the MPC icon, but have to be directed to open in MPC64.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • DanS26DanS26 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭✭
    The pertinent question is......how old is your hardware?
    23.16kW Kyocera panels; 2 Fronius 7.5kW inverters; Nyle hot water; Steffes ETS; Great Lakes RO; Generac 10kW w/ATS, TED Pro System monitoring with PVOutput.org
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What do use the laptop for mostly?

    I do taxes online, which is (mostly) agnostic to operating system.  My new-ish desktop and a really old laptop are configured for dual boot into either windows (10 for the desktop, Vista for the laptop), or a Linux variant (I use Debian).  

    I've read that W10 really wants more than the minimum RAM.  Sometimes tweaking settings can help, but if it's swapping (using the hard drive as an extension to RAM it's run out of), it will bog down badly. 

    If you check the running processes list, you may find a  particular application (eg browser) hogging RAM.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,587 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mine was born a Windoz 8, I keep an old XP laptop around so I can run my full version of Photoshop (6). I hate that they dropped support of it in Windoz 7. One day it works the next day you get up graded and can't use an expensive program, even if it was purchased many years before.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have an old desktop with (I think) Windows M.E. just to run an old accounting package a couple times of year.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,758 admin
    Older computers are simply slower, have less memory, and slower disk drives.

    As suggested above:
    1. Add DRAM (I suggest a minimum of 2-4 GBytes, I try for 12 GBytes or more for my machines)
    2. Change from a normal mechanical disk drive and use a SSD (silicon storage device)
    Between those, you will get the maximum performance possible from your old hardware... Some issues...

    Many older machines will not support >2 GBytes of DRAM (not really enough if you open lots of programs, web browser tabs, etc.). A friend purchased a bunch (couple of pallets) of Windows 7 Dells. Most where configured as office terminals with 0.5 GBytes of DRAM. That may have worked OK with the first release of Windows 7 when new, but just loading the latest version of W7 was painfully slow.

    SSDs are really nice... Can make an older computer perk up and run reasonably quick. SSDs do have a limited write life (they have software that spreads writes over the whole memory space). I have not "worn out" an SSD yet and it should help your computer last a few more years. SSDs are not cheap, but if you can live with 1,000 GB or less of storage, not a bad solution. Also, when disk drives fail, they generally give warning sings (random hangs/slowdowns) and will give you enough time to recover 99-100% of your data... SSDs if they fail, it is generally catastrophic and your data will be unrecoverable--So good backups are essential for anything you cannot afford to lose (and/or using cloud storage/backup).

    My same friend eventually did go out a purchase a Windows 10 PC from a computer recycler--And even though not anything special, the "recycled" W10 machine is much faster than even his W7 machines (2 GB memory, standard hard drive). Although, he still hates the W10 user interface (why do software folks move everything around with major releases--Like car mfg moving the gas pedal/brakes/steering wheel around between models). He still is trying to use Excel and Word 95 because of UI changes. Not sure if he got it to work on W10 yet or not...

    Another suggestion, if your having slowdowns (everything going fine, then a "pause")--That may be a sign the hard drive is failing and time to get a good backup and replace with a new hard drive or even SSD.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • fratermusfratermus Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭✭
    I recently updated the Win8 side of a dual-boot laptop to Win10.  I didn't notice any additional slowness.    Both of them are dogs in booting, performance, and updating compared to the Debian linux install on the other partition. 





    2017 Promaster 159" DIY camper
    570W mono / 220AH GC
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    W10 startup?  .... go have a coffee to let it do all its updating  with nothing else trying to use the RAM...it's a pig till it has finished what it thinks has to be done
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • mike_smike_s Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭
    No info on the hardware?

    I just helped a friend with a new laptop (came with Win10 Home). $400, included a 256G SSD. Added 1 TB disk (lots of music) and an extra 8GB (makes it 16) RAM for $100. Boots in under a minute, snappy performance. But, he hasn't loaded it up with a bunch of cruft which needs to load on boot. SSD is by far the best bang-for-the-buck in terms of performance.

    But yeah, Win10 sux. They really haven't improved or added anything useful since Win7.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019 #11
    Improved??? Just all the spyware... so they can send you targeted ads that you don't want...

    Hardware... No idea, got it from a friends son (40 yr) that wanted to use a specific video card etc when playing with his team and this Thermaltake box  desktop does not perform fast enough for him...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    What do use the laptop for mostly?

    I do taxes online, which is (mostly) agnostic to operating system.  My new-ish desktop and a really old laptop are configured for dual boot into either windows (10 for the desktop, Vista for the laptop), or a Linux variant (I use Debian).  

    I've read that W10 really wants more than the minimum RAM.  Sometimes tweaking settings can help, but if it's swapping (using the hard drive as an extension to RAM it's run out of), it will bog down badly. 

    If you check the running processes list, you may find a  particular application (eg browser) hogging RAM.
    BB. said:
    Older computers are simply slower, have less memory, and slower disk drives.

    As suggested above:
    1. Add DRAM (I suggest a minimum of 2-4 GBytes, I try for 12 GBytes or more for my machines)
    2. Change from a normal mechanical disk drive and use a SSD (silicon storage device)
    Between those, you will get the maximum performance possible from your old hardware... Some issues...

    Many older machines will not support >2 GBytes of DRAM (not really enough if you open lots of programs, web browser tabs, etc.). A friend purchased a bunch (couple of pallets) of Windows 7 Dells. Most where configured as office terminals with 0.5 GBytes of DRAM. That may have worked OK with the first release of Windows 7 when new, but just loading the latest version of W7 was painfully slow.

    SSDs are really nice... Can make an older computer perk up and run reasonably quick. SSDs do have a limited write life (they have software that spreads writes over the whole memory space). I have not "worn out" an SSD yet and it should help your computer last a few more years. SSDs are not cheap, but if you can live with 1,000 GB or less of storage, not a bad solution. Also, when disk drives fail, they generally give warning sings (random hangs/slowdowns) and will give you enough time to recover 99-100% of your data... SSDs if they fail, it is generally catastrophic and your data will be unrecoverable--So good backups are essential for anything you cannot afford to lose (and/or using cloud storage/backup).

    My same friend eventually did go out a purchase a Windows 10 PC from a computer recycler--And even though not anything special, the "recycled" W10 machine is much faster than even his W7 machines (2 GB memory, standard hard drive). Although, he still hates the W10 user interface (why do software folks move everything around with major releases--Like car mfg moving the gas pedal/brakes/steering wheel around between models). He still is trying to use Excel and Word 95 because of UI changes. Not sure if he got it to work on W10 yet or not...

    Another suggestion, if your having slowdowns (everything going fine, then a "pause")--That may be a sign the hard drive is failing and time to get a good backup and replace with a new hard drive or even SSD.

    -Bill

    In this case my newest computer is a slow dog from hell. Made in 2017 - I forgot the log in password and didn't use it until a computer shop got rid of the log in procedure. On the bright side - it doesn't generate significant heat. Just a super low performing dog. Think it has an SSD HD being made in 2017. Need to check on the memory - that might help.

    Trying Internet Explorer for the novelty I guess. Could that be part of the issue? Opera didn't work on this laptop for a while. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Improved??? Just all the spyware... so they can send you targeted ads that you don't want...

    Hardware... No idea, got it from a friends son (40 yr) that wanted to use a specific video card etc when playing with his team and this Thermaltake box  desktop does not perform fast enough for him...
    How would I know what to buy without advertising?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Beware of returned items to Amazon! Some thief removed the factory 8GB memory stick, installed a 4GB memory stick and returned it, as new, to Amazon. I also had something like this happen with shocks. They kept the more expensive shocks and returned the cheap shocks while calling them the expensive shocks. So my car was torn apart for quite awhile while they tried to get me to pay for returning 19 pounds worth of shocks. If Amazon is better than Ebay it would be because their web site tends to have better code. Plus they have a business department that isn't necessarily staffed with the sometimes idiots that work with non-business consumers.

    I would not be surprised if Windows 10 requires 8GB of memory to function properly. I will have 32GB next week! Hyper board dominance on the way! Have I not said that before? 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    softdown said:
     My experiments with Linux led me to believe that Linux is best for computer honchos. I'm not that serious. But I do want the performance that I enjoyed back in, well, 1995 to 2019. 
    you can get laptops with  a form of linux, ubuntu comes to mind, that are user friendly, even for non linux users

    that being said....you can run virtualbox on linux with  a minimal windows 10 virtual machine that can run TT on it.....or put a windows 7 VM on there if you want to use it also

    the reason to use linux is so you have more performance on the host to be able to use the guest....so you only have to use win10 when you need to run TT, all the other time you can run win7 ...or just use ubuntu if you dont want to run the guest
  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    @softdown
    Try running "Malwarebytes". It's an anti-malware, anti-adware application. The free version will clean the PC and receive updates. The premium version adds real time monitoring of data coming in from the internet. It is very effective and usually increases PC performance by getting rid of all the BS running in the background. I use it on 10 different devices. PCs, iPhones and iPads.

    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    The first updates helped a lot. The last updates really slowed it down but still much better than the junk of several days ago. Should be ok when 32gb of memory goes in. Lower power consumption - I hope. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It may be the updating itself that helped, or maybe just the reboot? 

    If it happens again, you may want to try hitting ctl-alt-del to bring up the task manager.  The individual process memory and cpu utilization numbers may show a naughty program (eg trial/nag-ware, browser plug-in, etc).

    One on my android phone bit me recently.  A preinstalled remote control app updated itself (even though auto-update is disabled). Not long after, I started getting pop-up ads unrelated to whatever app or website I happened to be using at the time.  Bloody annoying  :/
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    It may be the updating itself that helped, or maybe just the reboot? 

    If it happens again, you may want to try hitting ctl-alt-del to bring up the task manager.  The individual process memory and cpu utilization numbers may show a naughty program (eg trial/nag-ware, browser plug-in, etc).

    One on my android phone bit me recently.  A preinstalled remote control app updated itself (even though auto-update is disabled). Not long after, I started getting pop-up ads unrelated to whatever app or website I happened to be using at the time.  Bloody annoying  :/
    Yep - not going to do any updating or un needed downloads on my next Android. Battery consumption always gets worse. Plus the bloody advertising. I feel like the system is trying to milk me 24/7 already. I don't need help with spending money. 

    Task Manager used to be great - Windows 10 managed to screw that up.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For windows there are a couple of good ways to remove bloatware
    http://www.decrap.org/
      both are reasonably useful, but always be aware of "valued partners" side loading something in when you click "AGREE"



    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    As previously said  - initial updates had it running acceptably. But Microsoft "wisdom" insisted on more updates which turned it back into a slow as molasses turd. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did what was suggested in post 16 right? You could have picked something up.
    try this.
    https://en.softonic.com/articles/how-to-make-windows-10-run-faster-in-9-easy-steps

    I have an old win 7 running 10 with 4 M's of ram and it is fine. Not as fast as the machine built for 10. You should be able to revert back to a previous update for 30 days. You can also delay an update but you are open to security issues.
     If you have Cortana you are doomed to these problems. Lose her!  Good Luck
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Cortana appears to be the nucleus of this magnificent spyware masquerading as an essential operating system . Lose Cortana and prepare to reinstall the system. Ehhh - not up to that at the moment. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    PC Decrapifier had no recommendations for removal. The other program, decrap. was undergoing some type of renovation. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,758 admin
    Ok our new systems, we have been dropping the Microsoft Windows 10 binary install (no OEM stuff) directly, no factory install software.

    Had been working pretty well, although sometimes get tripped over needing to install a bit of OEM software and driver's at times (mostly laptops at this time).

    No OEM bloat ware.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd bet money that the spyware is mostly what turns this PC into molasses. Gates et al has to earn that ~800 million/year for handing the Microsoft keys over to Ingsoc. Oops. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Raj174 said:
    I use the version that also allows for flash memory scanning. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Did have a PUP in flash memory. Surprising considering how little use this computer has seen. 
    Also found that Windows Explorer was using over 2GB of memory. So I ended the Microsoft Edge program - whatever memory hog that may be. 
    I sure miss Windows 7 and XP and 2000 and 97 and 95. Windows 10 seems geared for sixth graders. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    I had the same problem with Safari being a memory hog. I started using Slimjet browser. It's an open source code clone of google chrome with a small memory footprint. Also, it has better configuration options. 
    https://www.slimjet.com
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    PavelM said:
    How old your hardware?
    This was built in 2017. I hope that a memory upgrade helps the bogging issues. It came with 8gb of memory but someone removed the 8gb stick and installed 4gb then returned it to Amazon - who sold it as about new as I recall. I thought saving $100 was a good idea. Did not consider the memory swap angle.

    I'm sure plenty of the speed issues are related to the notorious spying that Windows 10 was designed around. I need to change the default settings someday. Can't stand the changes in the platform. They made it stupid.

    I buy a lot of stuff used - sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
Sign In or Register to comment.