GE washing machine won't run off inverter power

Sorry if this issue was discussed in another thread, I searched and did not find one though.
I have a 4.5kw off grid soar power system from wholesale solar. Dual magna sine inverters. 48 volt system. 860 Ah capacity. 12kw winco backup genset.
Ive been running the whole house on the system for several months. TV, satellite receivers, computers, gas dryer, gas range (having some built in electronics)- all work fine. The lights dim slightly when the electric fridge or well pump comes on but not a problem.
I just tried using a new electric washer for the first time It has all the latest load sensing and other features I would prefer to not have. It won't work on inverter power. Works fine when running off a honda 2000 watt genny or when i have the big genny running.
I returned the first washer to the store thinking it was defective however when the second one failed too, I began to suspect my power supply.
Inverter power has 123-124 volts measured at the outlet. frequency I don't know.
Anyone else have issues with newer type washers on inverter power?
What type of 110v washers are you using successfully with your inverter power?
Thanks for any help!!
I have a 4.5kw off grid soar power system from wholesale solar. Dual magna sine inverters. 48 volt system. 860 Ah capacity. 12kw winco backup genset.
Ive been running the whole house on the system for several months. TV, satellite receivers, computers, gas dryer, gas range (having some built in electronics)- all work fine. The lights dim slightly when the electric fridge or well pump comes on but not a problem.
I just tried using a new electric washer for the first time It has all the latest load sensing and other features I would prefer to not have. It won't work on inverter power. Works fine when running off a honda 2000 watt genny or when i have the big genny running.
I returned the first washer to the store thinking it was defective however when the second one failed too, I began to suspect my power supply.
Inverter power has 123-124 volts measured at the outlet. frequency I don't know.
Anyone else have issues with newer type washers on inverter power?
What type of 110v washers are you using successfully with your inverter power?
Thanks for any help!!
Comments
Second system 1890W 3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.
5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
I have not measured any voltage drops. I will try that with my multimeter. It may or may not be fast enough to detect a very short lived drop.
Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
I've run a couple different simple washing machines off my small 1800 watt ProSine inverter with no problem. Current one is a 20+ year old front loader by Whirlpool(I think)
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
Do you notice lights getting "brighter" (or possibly dimmer) when a 120 VAC load goes on? A problem with a "bad" neutral wire/connection and 120/240 VAC split phase systems (standard North American residential power). On a 120 L1 to neutral load, a bad connection will cause a voltage drop on L1 (say to 80 VAC for your washer). That causes a voltage rise (upwards ~160 VAC) on L2 to Neutral for your lights (depending on how your home is wired). And any L1-L2 240 VAC loads are just fine.
-Bill
Yes, I do get some dimming of lights and a momentary decrease in woodstove blower speed when the fridge (120vac) kicks on or when the well pump (240vac) kicks on.
My inverter/equipment is in a shed about 125 feet from the house. The service wires to the house are way oversized. I think it was 100 amp wire per leg. I did use aluminum service wire and used conductive "grease" on the aluminum wire at terminal connections, being careful to separate the strands and apply the grease to each strand.
Maybe I could monitor the voltages on each leg at the inverter panel display and have my wife open the fridge door to get the fridge to run and then see what the voltages do.
I think I will also redo the neutral connections on the service wire.
No one else having any trouble with modern washers?
Rick
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
Second system 1890W 3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.
5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
Second system 1890W 3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.
5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
-Bill
Just another thought to toss into the mix.
Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
http://mvvikingstar.blogspot.com/2013/03/summery-and-conclusion-compatibility.html
The following link has an extensive report about poor power factor loads and how they affect generators. I have 2 backup generators, both same HP, but one has an old style gen head, that laughs at low PF, the other can barely run the pump without the pump protector tripping offline from insufficient power.
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
Bill
Yes, some modern domestic appliances seem to be really mean/cheap skates on their internal power supplies buffers.
On the OzInverter we have had to add 2 parallel Motor Run Caps on the Control board PCB, AC CT input, to elevate issues.
Everything is possible, just give me Time.
The OzInverter man. Normandy France.
3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (12 years running). ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 years) .... 14kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries.
Adding a motor run capacitor is a common solution for fixing power factor issues with induction motors. Adding a capacitor in parallel with an induction motor is a "perfect" fix (from an electrical engineering point of few). However, the capacitor should be in parallel with the motor (switched on and off with the motor), and the size/value of the capacitor selected to match the motor's inductor value and correct the power factor to ~0.95 maximum (if corrected to 1.00 or "positive" with the capacitor, the motor+capacitor can become unstable when the motor is shut down--The capacitor can turn the motor into a genset and cause dangerous voltages as the motor coasts to a stop).
With "electronic loads" like a washing machine with a VFD (variable frequency drive), the current waveform is no longer "linear" and adding a parallel capacitor does not "fix" this type of "poor power factor" issue (the current flow does not "lag" the voltage sine wave nicely, it depends on the "front end" of the VFD/electronic power supply and operating conditions of the motor+VFD).
I would be careful with adding a motor run capacitor in parallel with a washing machine to fix the problem. Without th proper test equipment and a selection of capacitor sizes, this is a real shot in the dark if this will fix the problem or cause other problems (inverters do not like driving inductive or capacitive loads).
-Bill
Anyone using magnum inverters and a fairly new washer? What model?
I have a larger setup at my current home, and front loader washer and dryer. I need to repeat the test, but expect it to work even better. These have a soft start on the motors, unlike the older one.
Good luck on your problem. These gremlins can be very frustrating. I finally removed the GFCI from my inverter. Just about any electrical motor would cause it to trip.
I found a place that sells a motor run capacitor mounted in an enclosure. I bought that and connected a power cord to the wires inside using wire nuts. I mounted the box on the wall behind the washer and plugged the power cord into the same outlet as the washer. I leave it plugged in all of the time and have had no issues. It has fixed the problem I was having.
The unit is called a powersaver 1200 and it is marketed as a power saving device when used near inductive motors. Note that the capacitor will hold a charge for a short time after unplugging the cord so caution should be used. (Do not touch the cord prongs). The device has an indicator light that is green when power is present. The light will discharge the unit to a safe voltage in a couple of minutes after the power cord is unplugged.
However, when you connect one of these to your off grid inverter--You are causing some extra energy losses for the inverter. I suggest that you want to "turn off" the Power Saver when the washer is not being used.
If you have a larger off grid system that runs 24x7 anyway--Turning off the Power Saver may not make much difference in overall battery power usage.
-Bill