off grid low usage stereo

Re: off grid low usage stereo

i think many of the car stereos may fit this application. i'm not too sure of the phono input, but many car stereos have an aux input. this may suffice for the phono and at worst case a preamp may be needed to properly drive the amplifiers.
even though many of these car stereos are meant for 12v, some of these bigger amplifier sizes could hastily drain your battery so keeping away from huge 100w (all channels added together) and up types would benefit you unless you account for such huge draws.

Re: off grid low usage stereo

We chose a Pioneer car stereo with aux in and Ipod dock. Sounds great, but most important, it has great fringe area FM signal capture. Wired into conventional home type speakers. Draws ~12 watts net/net.

Tony

Re: off grid low usage stereo

The big power drain is really the speakers although there has been significant improvement in that technology area as well.This does not make a lot of sense speakers only convert the power from an amplifier to acoustic output.Similar to a motor vehicle the vehicle itself only carries load .Its only the engine that produces the power to provide the propulsion... A 100 w a channel amp(2ch) driven to clipping will consume at least 200 hundred watts. there is no way around that... You often see a amp /speakers unit sold for computer connection claiming 1000 watts but when you look on the specs plate on amp it will say something max watts 150. or max current 240v at 130ma means max watts about 30 in reality max amp output about 12 per ch In general the larger the speakers the more sensitive they are.. meaning a 12" speaker is more sensitive than a 6" speaker. This means if you are using a car radio/amp setup buy the largest speakers you can , as they will give more acoustic output than small ones and therefore the amp will be drawing less current for a given room sound level

Re: off grid low usage stereo

Speaker truely do have widely variable efficency, Older 'Ohm' brand speakers took 5-10 watts minimum to drive them, while Klipsch with Horn extended range treeter/midrange are very effiecent (and sound great)

If you like to play... Sonic 'T' Amp's have been written up by audiophiles (now Dayton T amp), the small one is 15 watts and lots of fun for <$50. You can find several sites where people mod these into much better boxes, connectors, power supplies, spending hundreds on these.

BTW this runs of 12 volt DC, often sold with an adapter.

My Sonic version with some 'OK' book shelf speakers are all I would need, I usually play an MP3 player through the T amp and while I was once worried about a clean input using a creative Jukebox MP3 player with a line out, I've just been running straight out of my N800 (computer thingy) and can't tell the difference.

Not sure if it would produce enough volume for a party, but we turn it down when playing poker for phone calls, likely it would be fine with some nice Klipsch Book shelf speakers (a good exscuse any way!)

Re: off grid low usage stereo

I dont think the person in the first post was looking for either huge(Klipschorn) or super expensive like the top of the range JBLs ,
klipschorn speakers are a matter of taste as are of course all speaker box designs , but they cant produce true very low bass as the horn even with corner of room placement as they simply too small you would actually need them to be about 10ft tall to do that.
Speaker effeciency is usually related to magnet size/type cost/ ie for the last 50 yrs JBLs 15'' bass drivers have had effeciencies of about 95db w ,and that is still about the limit. so really no improvement at all.
For most home users a speaker box with a 12"bass and a mid range and tweeter will give the most output for a given amplifier output, A small bookshelf box with a 4" bass driver will be about 8 to 10 db less effecient meaning the bookshelf speaker would require about 100 watts to produce the same acoustic output as the 12" would on 10watts. The bookshelf box would have a useful lower frequency cutoff of mabe 70hz compared to the 12" 40hz.

Re: off grid low usage stereo

re: "Perhaps bryanl was referring to speaker efficiency. "

yep. amp efficiency in modern equipment for 'nominal' use is generally rather efficient and not really a concern in comparing devices, especially between those intended for portable or battery powered use. It is the power that is needed to get the speakers to move air that varies most.

If you have a discerning ear and want to hear the full audio spectrum, then you will have to consider both peak and average power needs of the speakers and they will have to be built for that rather than efficiency. (getting spectrum phasing right for these sorts of systems is also an interesting power challenge).

If you're getting a bit up there in age and don't have pretensions and don't mind (or notice) some of the nuance of _true high fidelity_ then you can get by with some nice, efficient, 'bookshelf' speakers.

If you're one of those who thinks they can get decent fidelity through a telephone, than nearly anything will do.

If you want to see power, take a look at some of the automotive subwoofer systems out there. I swear, I think they need an engine only to power the amps. The bump of the bass seems enough to bounce the vehicle down the road. The wiring sold for these applications is excellent for low voltage solar systems as it, too, tend towards hyperbole.

Re: off grid low usage stereo

While you're "chewing" on your tunes I'll flip on my Onkyo HT-S9100THX and enjoy the best sound for the money that I've ever come across. A 7.1 audio system that was THX certified for every component to work together perfectly. I don't know about it being the best for an off grid system since it's rated 1200 watts but it sure makes the Home Theater experience mind blowing and it does a pretty nice job on music as well.

Re: off grid low usage stereo

re: "Bryanl some of what you have written is a bit confusing and also not really correct" -- gheessh, get a grip, OK?

I was speaking in generalities and I really think that was rather clear. I was also considering context. Nitpicking general discussions is what leads to page after page of qualification and disclaimer and I really don't think we need to go there in this discussion.

re: "its impossible to get extended bass (25hz)from a speaker below about 8" no matter how much power it can take" -- Right on! - but many folks don't know they aren't hearing that low bass rather than artifacts of higher frequencies. They can be happy with that, or not. Perception is king.

If you want to get 'full spectrum' at low power, you use earphones of one sort or another, but then you can't share and the experience is different.

Efficiency includes many factors. Dynamic range as well as frequency range can have a major influence in both speakers and amplifiers when it comes to efficiencies. Reducing power requirements usually means squeezing these things in a balance with what the end user finds acceptable. (if you are obsessed with measures, consider that measuring overall speaker efficiency over frequency is about as error prone as measuring temperature of the globe).

If your idea is theater systems versus ye-olde-stereo, you will also incur the energy costs of driving 5 or 7 speakers rather than just two plus the power needed for a decent LFE channel.

When you get into semi-portable systems where power draw and space constraints are issues, you are going to be making some trade-offs. We are fortunate to live in times where you can get some very decent systems that do quite well for the audiophile willing to pay the price. I don't think the mp3 playing iPod user belongs in that category. They can be quite happy with 2 channel systems using 'bookshelf' type speakers optimized for adequate volume over a rather modest frequency range. That's why those stand alone, battery powered, 4 inch speaker iPod docky thingies are so popular at campouts. (I guess it's better than those table top battery powered radios of yesteryear).

Re: off grid low usage stereo

icarus wrote: »

We chose a Pioneer car stereo with aux in and Ipod dock. Sounds great, but most important, it has great fringe area FM signal capture. Wired into conventional home type speakers. Draws ~12 watts net/net.

I would also recommend this option, specifically with a Pioneer head unit. Why Pioneer? Because the Pioneer automotive receivers are the only ones that have a 3 band parametric equalizer. Parametric means adjustable frequency, and it offers choices of 40, 80, & 100 or 160 Hz for bass, 200, 500, 1k, 2k, or 3 kHz for midrange, and 3, 8, 10, or 12 kHz for your highs. Having a parametric EQ makes a huge difference in sound quality. The cheapest models don't come with this feature, of course, but $169 with free shipping is all that's required: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130P4100UB/Pioneer-DEH-P4100UB.html?c=3&tp=5684&avf=N That model also comes with a wireless remote, if that type of thing interests you.

Cariboocoot wrote:

Speaking as someone who is "up there in years" I'd just like to point out that I AIN'T DEAF!:p

What did he say? Did he call me Jeff?

Re: off grid low usage stereo

Telco, there's a reason why Amar's company deservedly has the nickname in the audio world of Blose: http://intellexual.net/bose.html
And the side by side comparisons you mentioned are the reason that Bose makes every store that carries their small speakers keep all of them away from all other companies' speakers. Most people have a hard time discerning just how bad a speaker sounds (and that goes double, if not triple when it's playing fairly loudly) unless they happen to have a good-sounding speaker with which to compare it. Once they have a point of comparison, Blose's shortcomings become glaring.

Back on topic, I meant to mention a set of nice-sounding, but still not expensive bookshelf speakers that are efficient enough to use with a car audio receiver. My choice would be these: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P162BG/Infinity-Primus-P162-Black-grille.html?tp=186 Just remember that every 3 dB of efficiency you lose requires double the amplifier power, to be able to play at the same volume level. That's a very important thing to remember when you don't have much power to begin with. Also, 6.5" woofers are about as large as a car audio receiver's amps will be able to handle, unless you are able to find a good condition pair of Cerwin Vega Re-20's on craigslist. The Re-20's have very efficient 8" woofers, and an overall efficiency of 95 or 96dB, if I remember correctly.

Re: off grid low usage stereo

john p wrote: »

Myocardia Having a parametric EQ makes a huge difference in sound quality ..?? Just about all the best amplifiers have NO "TONE" CONTROLS.

What's your point? Amplifiers don't have tuners, or the capability to change sources, either. Are you recommending that we convince him to buy a receiver that doesn't have either of those capabilities?:roll:

Also, 6.5" woofers are about as large as a car audio receiver's amps will be able to handle, ??? wHAT???? ANYTHING A 6.5" WOOFER CAN DO A 15" WOOFER CAN DO BETTER.

Oh really? Show me just one 15" woofer that can not only sound good while reproducing a ~60 Hz note, but also sounds good reproducing 3,000 Hz notes, like every 6.5" woofer I have ever seen has zero problems doing. BTW, two-way PA speakers have piezo tweeters, that have high output capabilities starting @ 1.8 kHz, so PA speakers would not qualify, even if anyone had ever made a good sounding PA speaker.

It is a huge misconception that you can only use a "small" speaker with a "small" amp. the average 6.5"woofer would be lucky to be much better than 84 db /w a good 15" woofer is more likely to be about 95db/w a massive 10 db difference. ie 10w in the 15" will be as loud as 100w into the 6.5"

First of all, JBL doesn't make any 15" woofers with a 95dB efficiency, so please stop pretending that they do. They did for a one or two year period, about 15-18 years ago, but haven't since then. If they did, are you trying to tell me that you would recommend to someone that ~14 watts is enough amplifier power for one of them? If your answer to that question is no, you've figured out that all speakers have not only a maximum recommended amount of power they should be given, but also a minimum, and the larger the driver, the higher the minimum will be.

Secondly, if you know anything about audio, you know that all woofers and subwoofers efficiency ratings are derived from them playing full range. They sound like utter crap doing so, but they are the most efficient (louder) when driven full range. This JBL sub here, rated at exactly the same sensitivity as the speakers that I linked;) will output well under 90dB (when given one watt/2.14V of input, at 1 meter), when low passed to the proper frequency for it: http://www.jbl.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=GT5-15&accT=1&tsT=0&ovT=1 That frequency is 50 Hz @ 12 dB/octave- 70 Hz @ 18 dB/octave, BTW. As a matter of fact, I can assure you it will be closer to 85dB, than to 92 dB.

Now, guess which will sound better with the 14 watts/channel of RMS power that a car audio receiver can output. If you guessed the Infinity 6.5's that I linked, you'd be right. BTW, guess which of the two will have much better midrange and highs, also.:D

Re: off grid low usage stereo

Marcel wrote: »

Hello to all. Our stereo just bit the big one and since we're moving to an off grid house soon I want to get a stereo to use off grid. We need a good sounding system that includes a CD and ideally one we can plug our phonograph into. Thanks everybody!

The thread has degenerated a bit. I feel compelled to jump into the flaming fire, but will resist.

To the OP, car stereo is probably the way to go if you need CD capability. But I suggest that you consider ripping your CDs to MP3 and using an appropriate player.

The real problem is your LP player. You'll still need to power your turntable with 120VAC. I'm not aware of any 12VDC models. Then you'll also need to have an AUX input on the car stereo head and use a RIAA equalized phono preamp (assuming that your phono cartridge is magnetic. Most are.)

Good luck!

K

Re: off grid low usage stereo

Many new car entertainment systems have USB input,, there are as noted by others record players that have USB and RCA outputs . the RCA output is at line level so can be fed into any Car radio/cdplayer that has RCA inputs. The only problem still is the turntable and its preamp are 230v ac. (Use very small inverter but would need to be sinewave ? )
Car entertainment systems are about the simplest way to go for 12v dc.and if connected to a good sized set of speaker boxes will give the greatest output for the least amount of current draw.