It's going to be close to cost effective! or Off grid at 26 cents a KWh!

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  • Tecnodave
    Tecnodave Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019 #32

    I have been using a Rolls Surette set of flooded lead acid for a few years now. They shipped out the door at Rolls June , 14, 2005. Almost 14 years old they are only teenagers. They test as new with more capacity than my much newer Interstate FLA's now 6 years old..I will get 20 years from the Surettes........id like to see anyone get that kind of service out of AGM's

    2 Classic 150, 2 Kid, 5 arrays 7.5 kw total  2ea.  2S6P Sharp NE-170/NE-165, 1ea. 12P Sanyo HIT 200,  2ea. 4/6P Sanyo HIT 200, MagnaSine MS4024AE, Exeltech XP-1100,  2 Banks L-16 battery, Rolls-Surette S-530 and Interstate Traction, Shunts with whizbangJr and Bogart Tri-Metric, iCharger i208B  dc-dc buck/boost converter with BMS for small form lithium 8S 16650 or LiFePO4,
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019 #33

    @DaangeroussDan

    It appears you have a whole lot to learn about creating a cost effective system. Love you see your AGM solution!

    I need a 16Kwh battery bank that will last 12-15 years and has the potential to last 20+. Mine cost $2525 delivered. I spend a very small amount of time every month checking up on it. Think 15 minutes and 2-3 gallon of distilled water a year, feel free to add $50 to the cost of the battery.

    Also... I DON'T WANT A BATTERY INSIDE!!! I'm happy to have it outside. The reduced capacity is not harming anything when I use the system minimally in the winter.

    Glad you aren't spending my money! How cost effective is your system? I'm brave enough to post mine and at this point my costs are less than the grid, with a power pole on my property! I don't know of anyone else who can make that claim short of Hawaii!

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mcnutt13579
    mcnutt13579 Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭✭
    #34
    https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/396906#Comment_396906

    I really want to like AGM, but the number of cycles to a given DOD is so much lower than flooded, plus they cost much more per unit of energy stored. So shorter lifetime, higher gross cost. How can this possibly work for anyone? Show us the math. And use some real batteries for comparison, at least 800 amp hours single string 48 volts. None of this L16/GC2 stuff, we have real houses to run here.

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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #35
    It's been most of a year since I have been very active. Last time was posting about Bob's passing.

    I've had a long couple years, but doing better. Amazing what they can do with replacement parts!

    An update on this build is in order!

    Even with abuse, a tree trimmer dropped a limb on my array breaking 1 panel. Later a tree was blown up hill and got another. ALL the electronics are hanging in there nicely! While I replaced the inverter with one I had specifically originally the Magnum 4024, the old Prosine still works fine after I replaced the fan in it. It worked but would shut down above 4-500 watts.



    Replacing the fan wasn't too difficult.

    As it still lives outside I need to pull it apart and blow out the dust, and the fan I replaced is getting noisy.  It's working fine!

    I limped along after my forklift battery died after 11 years in this install, I had bought it for a previous system so it was about 13 years old. I was dealing with life's other issues and bought a friend's old GC batteries that I knew were well taken care off even at 5 years old (Trojans) about 40% the capacity of the forklift battery, I quit running my main room air-conditioning after dark and a few other minor adjustments to my life style.

    This spring I replaced the 16.5 kWh forklift battery with about 15 kWhs of LiFePo4 batteries 4-280ah 12volt. I have found them amazingly efficient,  and they have worked out well so far. Spent today insulating the outdoor battery box for them...


    Amazing you can replace a 1000lb lead acid battery with about 300lbds of LiFePo4s. I used an crate from an engine shipped in and put 4" of insulating polystyrene top and bottom inside and a 1/2" on the inside walls, and another 2" all the way around and top outside. I've got an old 50 watt heating pad from before the auto 2 hour shut off on a thermostatically controlled outlet for heat tape that comes on at 50 degrees.

    I also added an indoor outdoor thermometer sensor so I can keep some tabs on the temps in the box.

    Knock on wood, things have worked out very well. 
    The solar electric system has had fewer spare parts than I have!!! AND is an even better value today as the COOP is talking about raising rates again. In 2012 something like $22 + 8.5 cents a kWh. Cost today before an increase $44 and 12 cents a kWh. It is certainly cheaper than the grid BEFORE any tax credits.



    Bless you all!!
    -Whit
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 7,073 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #36
    Bless you also Whit!    FRIDAY !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • billyturnstile
    billyturnstile Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭
    edited November 11 #37
    why not use 48v system. It's more efficiency. This battery is low price 48v 300ah.

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    #38
    billyturnstile said:
    why not use 48v system. It's more efficiency. This battery is low price 48v 300ah.

    I really like the clamps taped shut to the DC cables. How convenient is that?
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #39
    I thought I had covered this early in the discussion. 
    I had a 1 year old forklift battery for my tiny home. It certainly would have been better at 48 volts, totally agree.

    The economics were better for a 24 volt system for the tiny home, but selling a 1100 lb used forklift battery in a remote location would have been expensive. It turned out for the best... sort-of as I had setup with my existing Prosine 1800 watt inverter and left my job of 10 years in the recreational community where I had built the tiny home/cabin. When I sold that property I kept the money as a cushion rather than replacing the inverter and limped along for 5-6 years before getting the Magnum 4024 after the fan went out on the Prosine even though replacing the fan wasn't an issue.

     I still use the Prosine as it draws less than the Magnum when I'm away. I used the transfer switch on the Epanel since I don't run a generator. So switching is easy.

    I did did buy panels in 4s making switching the array to 48 volts pretty straight forward but guessing I'm fine into the future, though I can switch the batteries from 2x2 to 1x4. I hate being wasteful.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • billyturnstile
    billyturnstile Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭
    #40
    JRHill said:
    billyturnstile said:
    why not use 48v system. It's more efficiency. This battery is low price 48v 300ah.

    I really like the clamps taped shut to the DC cables. How convenient is that?
    This clamps are using for temporary, they are connection batteries for charging and discharging test. It's very convenient. and that's why use it for temporary. but the DC current not exceed 100amps. otherwise not suggested.
    this is the image come from egbatt https://www.egbatt.com/product/15-kwh-48v-300ah-lithium-lifepo4-home-solar-battery-storage-system/
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,720 admin
    #41
    In general, use of battery clamps is not a good idea--Even for a "quick test". It is not unusual for such a setup to barely power up an unloaded AC Inverter. Add a bit of a load, and you might see the system shutdown.

    Bolted DC Battery connections are much more reliable.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 7,073 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #42
    It is all about convenience in the Test and Measurment industry 😉😉

    That is until you blow a hole in the wall !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    #43
    Dave Angelini said:
    It is all about convenience in the Test and Measurment industry 😉😉

    That is until you blow a hole in the wall !
    "but the DC current not exceed 100amps"

    This is why QC/QA is supposed to have a direct path around everyone and directly to the top. That is until the ones at the top tell you to shut up and go back to your office and to shred the write-up.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 7,073 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #44
    "never go back to your office"  Especially if it is above people using battery clamps😉😉 Sorry Billy forgive me.

    Hey Whit,  does that easyheat also send temp data out to a smart phone?  I should check it out....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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