Manual generator start vs AGS generator start (and genset safety)

Graham Parkinson · November 2

Is there any difference between just starting a generator and putting power in AC2 and starting a generator using: AGS Configuration, Generator ON, Apply?

The reason I ask is that I've had a few incidents where manual input of power to AC2 by just throwing the AC2 breaker on a running generator bogs the generator down on qualification by the XW, despite having set the XW Charge AC breaker to the correct initial value.

Never seem to have that problem via the AGS software start route. Does the AGS route into XW charging have a softer start built in, or?

Even via the AGS method I run the startup process under supervision, gradually ramping up the AC breaker setting until the generator settles to each load increment. Wish the AGS or XW software had a linear charging current ramp up function, but maybe I'm missing something....

I'm thinking of adding a POE camera and mic to my fire resistant generator shed to make remotely supervised generator operation observable to confirm generator successful start and operation. That will improve safety of remote starts at our offgrid island site in the PNW. Despite 8 kW of solar and 30kWhr of good LiFePO4 bats we still occasionally need generators in winter.

There's already a 12VDC propane cutoff solenoid that only allows fuel to be supplied when the genset is commanded to be on, and gravity venting paths to route any gas leakage safely outside.

Exhaust is securely routed outdoors, with positive fan ventilation powered by genset and CO/Fire detectors. Looking for a good LAN networked remote reading CO/Propane/Fire alarm, if those exist.

Graham Parkinson · November 2

Here are a couple of internet connected CO and Propane alarms found on Amazon:

1) Google Nest Protect Fire and CO $$$ (C$299)
https://www.amazon.ca/Nest-Protect-smoke-carbon-monoxide/dp/B00XJEGEI6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2TL5GOUINPB5F&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.WO8gSt3B53TU1foWdzifoyIpHJXZyVq6cPFP6T-Fh78BA6I0oZRxKPu3i4rbrhpZvg0ESYGkbIBBTFJI1yAC9BbqbpFRY-dDqigzvhMirAm8wwY1xLIOuTHNQKR6SpeHU9a2MU1nmK5eA8Ok2Ay7Tmbf6MZOW29C3CxLLkeC-qfK_vrDIzgkIpvQ3S6yZUNPtBzu4XEtk8c9htfISwHf18EUlStmJbvXniak5h3KwFShfhUIWwSiIyzCIeN2Uoup9bZYUSd33uykZmI7UaKDg9uZ0sc5D2VcYcBcXHDqlHg.UZX48ONTIBngsGgHgrJe2jbZaWIl4bnninmL06jTUrY&dib_tag=se&keywords=Google%2BNest%2BCO%2Balarm&qid=1762122827&sprefix=google%2Bnest%2Bco%2Balarm%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-1&th=1

2) Sanfoelek Gas Leak Detector $C38
https://www.amazon.ca/Sanfoelek-Powered-Temperature-Display-Kitchen/dp/B0FP4K1SCL/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2AD53JUCG9WGZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.sbBQVn1TSLFJOVcjvJl1b-Pf9tDVk1LyBbsgkEgIYFyXbRMH7n9C_FcYxe5QPTvOtwwq1aqoVXb-uXbC7mqaSQHhDjTb1O5WbrQ7rgk_O-tpZ1-OsWyeZ_w4E8ah8Z8c-vy-QZ7Z36IbYQTdFXrRHzCCr2ul1a0Av2H5gD7SjID2V2FkjqH68hKu6xMV--EgFEwypt00iOFsLxBIq4mULmoG3gZrn-PEXz1BYYugOaNz-2Z11lVWQDK8r887dF4YV11SxIVPs5-WiaDZtgsF0jxP_ehMTdYyFD2elJcyOLk.H1BTbEMDRLmKYORcqCKbai_OVJ6pIxX_p5UcN8HaMlk&dib_tag=se&keywords=Wifi+Propane+alarm&qid=1762122561&sprefix=wifi+propane+alarm%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-5

JRHill · November 5

"Does the AGS route into XW charging have a softer start built in, or?"

My original Outback VFX3648 and the newer VFXR3648 both soft load the genset, whether with AGS or manual. I can't imagine why there would be a difference? I don't know about the Schneider but why would the method change? To me it is easier on both the inverter and the source to soft load.

Graham Parkinson · November 5

Hi There

In the XW there is a generator warm-up time in the XW settings, but that just provides a waiting period after start till the load is put on. In order to have the generator deal with the load and settle to it's rated power output after issuing a "generator ON" command, I need to manually bump up the load gradually by increasing the "AC2 Breaker" amps.

JRHill · November 5

FOR EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD there is a miss communication here. Please do not mistake a soft start device for bumping up your inverter output little by little = however that works. A soft start device can not be made by bumping up inverter output. Oh, BTW, what happens to everything else powered by the inverter?

Dave Angelini · November 5

Sounds like you need to limit the DC charge amps, not the breaker size amps. This is often caused by a generator that is slightly out of spec until it warms. Which one does this?

Remember you are dealing with a charger that is built for a 60 amp ++ 240 generator. Yes XWP soft starts but the bad part is when you have a generator problem, XW will not soft stop, after doing this alot, fried relays are next! Be careful ! You could be the next one 😒

I do not understand "bump up the load by increasing AC2 breaker size? Breaker size is a the limit on the load as is DC charge amps. Probably saying the same thing differently.

Graham Parkinson · November 9

Hi Dave

If I understand it right, the XWPros seem to have two obvious methods of limiting the generator loading when charging a battery off a genset. I use the first - is the second how you suggest to limit the "DC charge amps"?

Method 1) AC Settings: Setting the "AC2 Input AC Breaker Size" which appears to limit the input draw on each leg of the 230VAC AC2 input to 80% of the entered breaker size amps. At the moment, only my Honda 3000 is setup with the AGS. When I'm using the propane converted Honda 3000 through the Victron Autotransformer I set AC2 breaker to only 4 amps at first for generator startup, then gradually bump that up to 14 amps which gives about 2400 W of charging.

Method 2) Battery Settings/Maximum Charge Rate: "Sets the allowable percentage of the maximum DC output current that is available to the charger" This seems to be intended to be some sort of battery protection current limit. At the moment on my XW this is set to 100% (Does that mean in the absence of other control it would output 60 amps when charging?)

Thanks, Graham

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/mz/ux7tkqagq4rt.png

Dave Angelini · November 9

Yes and all XW versions do 1 and 2 like this BTW.

Example:The electronic breaker if set to 30A would be right for a 7200 watt generator. Perfect for #1
For #2, if the setting in #1 is 30a, you could lower the Max charge rate to give it time to warm up.
Max charge rate is really a percentage in charge amps of the 30A you set in 1.

If doing the example you could delay your large AC load amps for an hour or ? to enable the gen to stabilize. XW always gives priority to AC loads over DC charging loads.

The Soc enable is another topic really, and with small generators is really not that important.

Still growing tomatoes here! With a down comforter and tarp at night! Cheers!

Graham Parkinson · November 13

Thanks Dave for explaining Schneiders obscure documentation so clearly.

Not really tomato growing weather up in the Salish Sea right now. Getting 25 mm rain (1") per day but the gorgeous red Arbutus (Madrona) berries are everywhere and are a feast for the birds.

Getting just enough solar to get by on, if we watch our consumption on the mostly un-sunny days now.

Moving the freezer into the hyper-insulated powershed (with staggered 2x3 studs, 6" rockwool stud bay fill, covered by 1.5" of rockwool board, lined with cement board fireproof panelling) was a good move.

Waste heat from the freezer and charge controller / XW is keeping the batteries at a nice 12 degrees C even with outside temps half that and bouncing down towards zero now.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/bq/rfzaou6q1sn9.jpg

Dave Angelini · November 14

Thanks Graham, I have pictures of over 500 XW's over 2 decades. That helps my nearly 70 year old brain.

Last time I was in the Salish was after Desert Storm. Came in on my brothers carrier Nimitz. Totally beautiful where you are! What are the ladders for? Watching the mountains...

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/jp/fpfsaouu12r5.jpg

Graham Parkinson · November 14

Great mountain view Dave. I really enjoy watching sun light scroll across the peaks around us revealing the hidden structures of the mountains.

That garden enclosure fence probably holds the heat well for ripening tomatoes. Hopefully you don't have deer jumping into your garden for a nibble like we do.

We are on a little island in Howe Sound, which is a 25 mile long fjord off of the Salish Sea - just NW of Vancouver, BC Canada. In the spring we start to get a regular parade of cruise ships past us each year on the way to Alaska.

The ladders are on our dock crane pole at the moment to access the top of the pole for putting up a better pan-zoom web camera we use to keep a weather eye on the moorings and docks in our little harbour.

Crane is for hauling generators, freezers, batteries etc. out of the boat onto the dock.

Dave Angelini · November 15

What a great place to live! Who cares of clouds with your place. Really nice battery also. I was a bit sad when they abandoned the AES 6650. That was such an easy install. The rack is an obvious upgrade but still a bit of a pain to close loop on.

We did see the Northern lights a few nights back when there was a strong storm. East of us in N. Nevada there is nothing but desert. Not many people out there.

Cheers !
--Dave

Manual generator start vs AGS generator start (and genset safety)

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