Pretty good free TV for off gridders!

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
in In the Weeds--Member's Choice #1
Finally found it! After years of frustration - you can download Pluto TV and locast unto smart tv services such as Amazon Fire Stick and  others. They have app's for smartphones as well. I've seen the smartphone app simply called Pluto. 

Locast delivers the closest big cities programming choices. Pluto TV seems to always have a few hundred choices to watch. Many are old shows such as Baywatch, Married with Children etc. Lots of movies to choose from. Lots of most everything it would seem. Both are funded by advertising of course. So you will know what to buy! You can opt out of seeing advertising on locast by contributing $5/month by the way. Locast calls itself "non-profit" and seeks donations. 

I live in a mountain valley. Not even a massive antennae receives more than local programming - which is primarily Spanish. I was stuck with Netflix at $8/month and YouTube. Odd thing about Netflix is you have to search to find more than a few dozen choices. Pluto TV always has what seems to be hundreds of choices being aired.  Netflix is ad free while Pluto TV is funded by ads. 
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    locast might be an exclusive to the Fire Stick? Amazon sent an email saying No Charge for that service. 

    I would think that TV with ads might consume a small amount of less energy. Just a guess though. You can't pause or rewind - it is like TV used to be. With ads - now we know what to buy! Who knew that kids shun their parents due to wrinkles on their clothes?

    The people that make modern ads are idiots compared to so many of the marketers of yesteryear. Guess I am now old. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    For me, availability of decent internet service is generally the hard part - and expensive. I am not very remote, but we have no cable/fiber, no DSL and Hughes satelite service is atrocious.
    Once you have a decent internet connection, there are more choices than I personally need. We went with cellular based internet with a small outdoor antenna. Very happy with it.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • New_Mexico_Will
    New_Mexico_Will Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭
    #4
    Marc, would you share what service you are using?  Are you in the US?
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    locast is a pain. They ask for $5/month every few minutes. They also sell ads so not sure why they are so desperate - real turn off. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #6
    We are on the north facing side of a canyon with zero utilities and there never will be any. No USPS, UPS or FEDX. We have 1 or two bars of roaming cell service if within 4' of the cell booster in the kitchen. We switched from DishNet to Hughes G5 a few years ago - it was little better. TV is via Dish.

    Am I complaining? Nah. Its well worth it. One thing is for sure, once StarLink started accepting Plus Codes instead of refusing our unknown address we were signed up immediately for estimated fulfillment yet this year (fingers crossed). So we are hoping to finally be able to stream something and especially to make VOIP calls as far as the WIFI reaches! WooHoo!
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    ^^^Seems that everybody complains about Hughes. My ISP no longer allows streaming of Netflix and Youtube unless you upgrade from 5mb to 10mb speed. On paper they allow it of course. Real world - not very often anymore.

    But I can stream on my laptop for some reason.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #8
    softdown said:
    ^^^Seems that everybody complains about Hughes.
    Didn't mean to diss just Hughes. I've used 3 satellite internet providers and there is little difference between them. StarLink will be the 4th but it'll be a whole new ball game with that technology. At least that's how it looks now. We'll see how things end up as the subscriber numbers come up and the system gets loaded.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    We are at about 1-1/2 years into our At&T cell-based internet access and still OK with it, except for the cost - but it is still the best we can do here. We get a download speed of 25-30 Mbps for $ 80./month and that includes a VOIP number/line. We are limited to 300 GB of data per month. Still far better than our experience with Hughes!

     
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Marc Kurth said:
    We are at about 1-1/2 years into our At&T cell-based internet access and still OK with it, except for the cost - but it is still the best we can do here. We get a download speed of 25-30 Mbps for $ 80./month and that includes a VOIP number/line. We are limited to 300 GB of data per month. Still far better than our experience with Hughes!

     

    In Colorado I was paying more than that in 2012 and only getting cell service - no internet. Perhaps because I just barely, barely had cell service here. Your plan looks pretty good.

    My phone only gets 2GB of service, unless I pay extra, and email doesn't work unless I'm home. That can be a huge hassle.

    Phone and internet service can be a challenge of off grid living. Getting the signal amplifier for the phone was fantastic.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Looks like  some of you guys will have to wait longer for your starlink. I heard on the tv news yesterday that 40 satelites got  zapped with some kind of magnetic waves and will never reach orbit. 
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    edited February 2022 #12
    The star link issue was more complicated and simpler than getting zapped.

    The engineering plan is to launch star link satellites into a relatively low earth orbit. That allowed them to save fuel (smaller rockets--And have fuel for landing/reuse of first stage).

    Once in low earth orbit... They run tests on the satellites to see that they are functional. And if they are, they use very efficient/low thrust (i.e., don't use need much "mass" for engines, but solar electric propulsion. Ion engine--Small amounts of reaction mass accelerated to high velocity using solar electric power) propulsion to get into the proper orbits (can take weeks or months of low thrust to accomplish).

    For satellites that don't make it--They can quickly deorbit/burn-up in atmosphere--Or use their small ion engines to deorbit.

    The issue with the last launch--There has been more solar activity (solar flares/etc. or geomagnetic storm) which has heated up the upper (very thin) atmosphere of the earth. Which increased drag at the low earth orbit used for parking/transfer to higher orbits. During low solar activity, the density of the (what little there is) atmosphere was low enough (low drag) for everything to work as planned.

    In this case, the higher drag because of solar heating of the earth's upper atmosphere, there was more drag and they were not able to salvage most of the satellites in the transfer orbit. And the excess drag is deorbiting them.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/09/tech/spacex-starlink-solar-storm-satellites-scn/index.html
    A batch of 49 Starlink internet satellites were on SpaceX's latest launch on February 3, and now the company is expecting to lose most of them because they hit a space weather event known as a geomagnetic storm. This event occurs when streams of charged particles, or solar winds, emitted from the sun interact with Earth's magnetic field. The energized particles can heat up the upper atmosphere, causing it to thicken. (Yes, there is still atmosphere in areas of outer space closest to home. The Earth's atmosphere fades out over thousands of miles.)
    The loss is not a good event--But in the big picture (10,000 - 50,000 total satellites "possible final constellation")--It is not horrible either.

    The Starlink satellites are relatively cheap (something like $1,000,000 USD each???), and SpaceX is a relativley cheap launch per satellite cost.

    10 years ago, the estimate for a large Communications satellite was;

    , Satellite Communications Engineer
    Answered 10 years ago · Author has 170 answers and 445.1K answer views
    Assuming that you mean a geostationary telecommunications satellite, very rough orders of magnitude:Satellite manufacture: $150MSatellite launch: $120MLaunch insurance: $20MIn-orbit insurance: $20MSatellite operations (15 years): $15M
    Thus the total cost of ownership is (very ballpark) $325M.    And more recent GeoSync Comm Sat was >$300,000,000 just for the satellite itself.The (very roughly) estimated cost for SpaceX Falcon 9 is $27,000,000 per launch, $1,000,000 per Sat, and ~49 satellites per launch...
    -Bill

    Just another quick note: Apparently "space weather forecasting" is not that accurate as of now, they did not launch into a known problematic condition--What is happening with this last launch is expected to help future understanding/predictions of near earth orbit "space weather issues".
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    I am not holding my breath for Starlink service in my location. Great if it eventually happens, but I am still using cell-based internet access at both my shop and my home which are about 12 miles apart. It works well for me, but I use an amplifier at work in my steel building.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Marc Kurth said:
    I am not holding my breath for Starlink service in my location. Great if it eventually happens, but I am still using cell-based internet access at both my shop and my home which are about 12 miles apart. It works well for me, but I use an amplifier at work in my steel building.
    Marc, wonderful for you. But there are still a bunch of folks that don't have line of sight. Nor cell. Or a local tower. But we are the few. We don't count.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2022 #15
    JRHill said:
    Marc Kurth said:
    I am not holding my breath for Starlink service in my location. Great if it eventually happens, but I am still using cell-based internet access at both my shop and my home which are about 12 miles apart. It works well for me, but I use an amplifier at work in my steel building.
    Marc, wonderful for you. But there are still a bunch of folks that don't have line of sight. Nor cell. Or a local tower. But we are the few. We don't count.

    I do understand, I was only pointing out one option for many people. Fringe areas are the market segment served by satellite. That is why I started with satellite four years ago. I do not know where you are, but if you have zero cell signal on all of the major carriers, have you explored a yagi on a low tower driving an amplifier? We are not line of sight here, our base cell signal level hovers around -114 db which is too low for a phone call without some help.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Yup. Have used a zboost w/yagi for years++. Now it doesn't work as the carriers are phasing out 3g. I have a 4g zboost with Yagi but its reception was terrible.

    Problem solved as of today. Temporarily rigged the Starlink on the hood of the pickup. I can't believe it. Screw the cell signal. I'll be doing VOIP from here out.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #17
    Depending on Cost of Service (and any data limits)--The StarLink system will probably outperform any "Cell" data system and be cheaper too.

    As well as cheaper/faster/lower delays/much higher data limits vs Geosynchronous traditional satellite systems (could make GeoSync communications obsolete for most folks).

    There seem to be quite a few Beta users in major cities that are using Starlink vs DSL and Cable internet providers (faster, higher data limits, and relatively stable connections even vs land line type systems and even cheaper for some).

    I guess one issue at this point--StarLink does not support "mobile" customers at this time... Has to be a fixed installation (home roof, etc.). Will not support RV/Boats/etc. at this time with "basic service" package. February 2, 2022 article:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/02/spacex-starlink-premium-satellite-internet-tier-at-500-per-month.html

    The new product, which was added to the company’s website Tuesday night, comes at five times the cost of the consumer-focused standard service. Starlink Premium requires a $500 refundable deposit, a $2,500 fee for the antenna and router, and the service costs $500 per month.

    The standard Starlink service, which launched in October 2020, has a $99 refundable deposit, a $499 hardware fee and the service costs $99 per month.

    Elon Musk’s company is touting improved hardware, faster service speeds and priority support in its pitch to prospective premium customers.

    “Starlink Premium has more than double the antenna capability of Starlink, delivering faster internet speeds and higher throughput for the highest demand users, including businesses,” the SpaceX website said.

    The first premium deliveries will begin in the second quarter, the Starlink website notice added.

    $500 per month for Mobile (and higher speed/capacity data link?) vs $99 for fixed locations.

    I guess he is looking at the market and what it will bear.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
     A friend of mine just got Starlink for his remote ranch and he likes it so far. He is seeing consistent speeds of 270 down and 30 up. It cost him $550. to get started and $99.00 per month. He hasn't had any bad weather yet to test the system response in storm conditions. Makes a lot of sense for remote areas.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    JRHill said:
    ..................................................................................................................................

    Problem solved as of today. Temporarily rigged the Starlink on the hood of the pickup. I can't believe it. Screw the cell signal. I'll be doing VOIP from here out.

    That's great for you! Starlink is telling me early 2023 for service in my area.

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #20
    Marc Kurth said:
    JRHill said:
    ..................................................................................................................................

    Problem solved as of today. Temporarily rigged the Starlink on the hood of the pickup. I can't believe it. Screw the cell signal. I'll be doing VOIP from here out.

    That's great for you! Starlink is telling me early 2023 for service in my area.

    It was originally impossible for me to sign up. Starlink would verify your physical address which was for me impossible because my road is  undocumented (except to the county tax man). The access is a trail through private parcels with no USPS, delivery or utilities. Finally they added an option called "Plus Code" to the signup in the beginning of 2021 and I sighed up immediately. I couldn't wait to be done with Hughes now and  DishNet and Wildblue before them. And their skimpy data caps. So for me the wait was still 13 months.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #21
    I understand there is a heater in the dish antenna to melt snow/ice off it ?  Can the heat be shut off ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #22
    mike95490 said:
    I understand there is a heater in the dish antenna to melt snow/ice off it ?  Can the heat be shut off ?
    Yes. That's what  did today (2nd day since install). It got to 25 last night and my SOC was down 5% more than normal with 300ah of lithiums. 
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #23
    And it has been reported (on the Internet....) that Cats and Birds like the warm antenna in winter weather:

    https://greekreporter.com/2022/01/18/cats-starlink-satellite-dish/


    -Bill "I read it on the Internet--It must be true" B.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #24
    Gosh that is a funny picture. There should be a "Buzz' mode. Rowwllll.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭
    #25
    BB. said:
    And it has been reported (on the Internet....) that Cats and Birds like the warm antenna in winter weather:

    https://greekreporter.com/2022/01/18/cats-starlink-satellite-dish/


    -Bill "I read it on the Internet--It must be true" B.

    LOL!
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #26
    Just a heads up on the new generation of Starlink equipment with the rectangular dish:

    There is no ethernet port- only WIFI. There is no WPS function. Apparently there is an optional device for purchase that will accept an ethernet cable but using it disables the built in WIFI and you will have to add your own router. I have a few devices that are ethernet only like the Outback Mate3s and an old network drive. I bought an IOGear Ethernet to WIFI adapter but have been completely unsuccessful at configuring it since I don't own a computer with an ethernet port (required for manual configuration) and the Starlink brick doesn't have WPS. Grrr. Oh, and the Starlink ethernet device seems to be perpetually back ordered.

    On the positive side, the Starlink service is excellent. I've never had home internet service this fast.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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