45 amp TriStar pwm limit

Could i use 4 of these panels on a 45 TriStar pwm @12 volts battery?
2kw array 6 345 q cells  make sky blue 60 cc
 6 230ah GC @36 volts 
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion 

Comments

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It would be close, and if you assume a bit of panel heating, and less then perfect aim, it would work right at the hairy edge. 
    44A into a 45A controller.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Morningstar has a string calculator which will provide the answer you're looking for http://string-calculator.morningstarcorp.com
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, unless you live in a very cold area, these would be a fine pairing. Chances of them reaching 11.48 amps is pretty much nil... 
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mountainman
    mountainman Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭
    Morning star string calculator says 3 is the limit.
    Since evergreen has been out of business since. ~2010 these panels are fairly old and i would think that there out put is probably not as good as when they were new.
    My thoughts are to angle 2 panels in an east
    Direction.and 2 in a westerly direction.
    Virtual tracking. 
    String ribbon panels does anyone know 
    Any thing on this type of panel?
    2kw array 6 345 q cells  make sky blue 60 cc
     6 230ah GC @36 volts 
    18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion 
  • mountainman
    mountainman Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭
    @Photowhit winter temperature occasionally
    Gets down to 20 f.
    2kw array 6 345 q cells  make sky blue 60 cc
     6 230ah GC @36 volts 
    18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion 
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    String ribbon panels does anyone know 
    Any thing on this type of panel?
    Little bit, they make the crystalline cells by drawing silk fibers up through a cauldron of molten silicon. Was at one time the most efficient energy wise way to make silicon cells, about 1/2 the time for energy pay back of other cells. It's the reason they got bought up and didn't fold. They used it and licensed it to a German company for a while.

    EE580  Solar Cells Todd J Kaiser Lecture 06 Solar Cell Materials

    One of the founders describes the process thus;

    "In the String Ribbon process, a set of special, parallel "strings" are pulled through a small molten pool of polysilicon inside a custom furnace. A thin wafer is created between the two strings as the polysilicon cools and recrystallizes. The process is continuous, clean, and efficient. By the end of 2003, the company had developed the technology to the point where low-cost production could be achieved."

    Link to article;
    https://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2007/08/22/silicon-strings-and-solar-cells.aspx

    Evergreen solar panels have power my life since 2004. Bought some of the last shipment in 2011 for my current array. 
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mountainman
    mountainman Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭
    edited May 2020 #8
    Thanks @Estragon Interesting read.
    Does it seem your older panels production have degraded much since new?
    I haven't been able to find much information 
    On there temperature co efficiency.
    But At 23 cents per watt. I'm tempted to give them A try. 

    2kw array 6 345 q cells  make sky blue 60 cc
     6 230ah GC @36 volts 
    18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion 
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020 #9
    Thanks @Estragon Interesting read.
    Does it seem your older panels production have degraded much since new?
    Well, this is 'Whit', I haven't seen a lot of degradation, but haven't really been looking or expecting much. I have a panel made in the early 80's producing nicely, though a monocrystalline. My systems tend to be over sized array to battery. I don't use a generator.

    I never expect a solar panel to produce over 75% of the panel rating. There is a difference between the 'flash test' to get Standard Test Condition, STC rating and the Normal Operating Cell Temperature, NOCT values. These tend to be about 75%.

    These means you can expect about 75 watts out of a 100 watt panel. This is what you can expect when the panels are warm/hot. You may approach Standard Test Conditions(STC), in very cold winter days with good direct sun, but it will be rare.

    Also a well designed system will rarely NEED to produce maximum current. Typically systems are designed to reach full charge and stay in the top 80% of battery capacity on sunny days. At around 80% a flooded lead acid battery accepts less current. So there will be no need to have the system producing at maximum current. Even after a cloudy day and your battery bank down to 60%, it will start charging before the sun reaches solar noon when maximum production is possible and you may never see maximum production and the cells will warm, even in winter! So less than STC will be normal. I would never sweat these panels in 20f days.

    These days some manufacturers are printing out and posting the NOCT values on their panels or at least in their literature. Here are some examples;


    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
      Sad that Evergreen Solar Went under due to the government subsidized solar industry in China all those years ago. They put out a great product but just couldn't compete, as many other mfg. couldn't. That's a great price for those large format 12 volt panels. I have had many of them over the years and they have always been rock solid, well built panels.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy them provided they are in good physical condition.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mountainman
    mountainman Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭
    I meant @Photowhit (sorry)
    @littleharbor2 I've only seen  pictures of the panels.
    When I inquired about the age of the panels the seller responded 5 years??
    Now I'm not so sure about the 100 mile ride to check them out. 
    2kw array 6 345 q cells  make sky blue 60 cc
     6 230ah GC @36 volts 
    18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion 
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Evergreen went out of business more than 5 years ago. I see you already know that. The seller is either flat out lying to you or just plain doesn't know their age and may be guessing. Maybe he was told they were 5years old from a previous owner/seller. At that price I would grab them up before someone else does.
      The evergreen panels I have handled were in great condition and could have passed for 5 years old by looking at them.

    Where are they located?

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mountainman
    mountainman Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭
    If you don't know say so. I think some people would tell you anything to make a sale.
    Found them on Craigslist in Athens georgia. I believe evergreen Went under about 9 years ago.

    2kw array 6 345 q cells  make sky blue 60 cc
     6 230ah GC @36 volts 
    18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion 
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020 #14
    mountainman said:.
    When I inquired about the age of the panels the seller responded 5 years??
    The high wattage 12 volt nominal panels were some of the last made, I think mine are manufactured in 2010(some of the last made, though 60 cell 30 volts VMP +/-. Likely a few were made in 2011.  I expect the useful life of solar panels is determined by the owner. I've heard of plants switching out 5-7 year old panels, and also that some of the very earliest still produce.

    FWIW - I believe Evergreen panels were manufactured in China for the most part over the last couple years. 

    Ooops, I might have lied to you, looks like the 108 cell panels (3x36 12 volt nominal) were made in USA. The product spec sheet was from 2009, found a back panel photo stating made in USA;
    Evergreen Solar ES-A-205-fa3 205 Watts Solar Panel  Great Solar

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you do buy them, ask if they have the shipping 'corners', Evergreen mostly didn't use cardboard and had interlocking plastic corners. I still use them today. I've seen them trying to be sold for $2 a piece + shipping on eBay 8-10 years ago;

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mountainman
    mountainman Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭
    How long does it take to recharge the battery for the scion with that array lol.
    So 12 volt 210 watt evergreen panels are 108 cells.    Sorta like 3 70 watt panels in parallel all in one panel
    2kw array 6 345 q cells  make sky blue 60 cc
     6 230ah GC @36 volts 
    18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion 
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How long does it take to recharge the battery for the scion with that array lol.
    1900 watts of panels, I thought it would be quicker...lol!
    So 12 volt 210 watt evergreen panels are 108 cells.    Sorta like 3 70 watt panels in parallel all in one panel
    That's my understanding, I think this is more common today. 6x18 cells;
    https://www.evergreensolar.com/upload/MAY 2009 NEW LITERATURE/English (US)/US_Datasheet_010609_Lo.pdf



    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.