Underground to generator shed

wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
Hi all , quick question 
 I need to run a wire from my inverter to my generator shed , it’s about 35’ thru the garage and out the wall . 
 I need to run under ground 65’ to the shed  , could I run this wire in conduit or should I buy direct  burial cable , I only want to do this once . 
 I have a roll of 6g wire on hand .
 I also want to run some 12 /2 so I have some light and power out 
 I’m assuming I need some kind of a lead to run from the box on the wall in the shed to the generator and maybe a  Power disconnect on the wall of the shed out side                                                           
 Thanks in advance John 
Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .

Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would use conduit, it's easy to work with, has fittings, and you don't need special cable.    The hard part is digging the trench.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I too would use conduit as long as the total included bends are less than 360° between junction boxes.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Wheelman55Wheelman55 Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    As long as you are going to dig a trench, put in two runs of conduit. It is cheap and you just never know what you’ll want to run next...more electric, comm cables, other...
    Building Off-Grid in Terlingua, TX
    14 CS 370 watt modules. HZLA horizontal tracker. Schneider: XW6048, Mini PDP, MPPT 80-600, SCP. 1 Discover AES 48 volt LiFePO4 battery 130 ah
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
    So I can run regular 12/2 and 6 /2   wire with ground ,  Do you think that would pass ny state   Electrical inspection  ? 
     Around here every one seams to run  individual wires black white red and green ? 
      The reason I’m  concerned about the type of wire  Is every time I dig up a conduit it’s full of water ? 
     There is condensation plus water gets in the pipe when the guys are working on it . 
      How  large a generator can I run on a 6 g wire at 100’  
     I have a 2800 watt Honda now but may move up to a 10000 watt diesel with 240 volt  I’m not sure what to do with the extra leg of the genarator
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Generally speaking, if there are two separate sources they shouldn't be in the same raceway, this becomes a little  confusing as one won't be energized whilst the other is, to avoid the ambiguity running each in a separate conduit would eliminate the confusion as both are physically isolated, either way a ground bonding is required in each conduit of a non metallic raceway, assuming PVC
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 772 ✭✭✭✭
    @wellbuilt
    The 10000 watt genie is capable of about 42 amps per leg at 240 volts. I believe a 6-2  romex type cable is rated at 55 amps. At 100 feet there is less than 2% voltage drop. Probably not very efficient to load down only one leg of a 240V generator. Might be better to stick with a 120V model. Do you need that much power?

    Rick   
    3600W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E.
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi rick ,  I probably don’t need that much power , but I really like the kabobs equipment and there are a lot of 10000 watt kabobs diesels around here for sale in good shape for short money . 
      So how large a genarator could I use on the 6g wire, I know I dident   Guess the size of the wire , I must of got the information some where , I may of figured to run one leg of the 240 volt to the inverter and the second to power some 240 volt equipment .
     Let me ask you this , is the 6g wire large enough to cover the serge ratting of my 36/48 out back inverter , So 7200 watts ? 
      I use the 6g wire from the inverter to my panel 3600 watts x2 7200watt serge  it’s looking like my wire is to small for the inverter load .😳
          Do I need to change out the wire?                       Thanks for the reply john
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 772 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it's big enough. The 6-2 cable is more than adequate for your needs. I suppose you could use a 240 to 120 volt transformer if you want to go with a 240 volt generator. 
    3600W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E.
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
    I just haven’t seen any large 120volt genarators? 
    Ill just use the wire that I have  for now.
    and dig in a larger wire if I need it when I live there full time.
      The digging is the easy part for me .   Thanks every one for the help John 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 154 ✭✭
    wellbuilt said:
    So I can run regular 12/2 and 6 /2   wire with ground ,  Do you think that would pass ny state   Electrical inspection  ? 
     Around here every one seams to run  individual wires black white red and green ? 
      The reason I’m  concerned about the type of wire  Is every time I dig up a conduit it’s full of water ? 
     There is condensation plus water gets in the pipe when the guys are working on it . 
      How  large a generator can I run on a 6 g wire at 100’  
     I have a 2800 watt Honda now but may move up to a 10000 watt diesel with 240 volt  I’m not sure what to do with the extra leg of the genarator
    No you can not use "regular 12/2 and 6/2" in the conduit when running it underground.



  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi coach dad , that what I was afraid of I’ll have to get some more wire
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi all, I’m still working on my generator shed , I’ve run 2 leads out to my generator shed a 6/2 and 12/3 direct burial cable , the 6/2 I run to my generator the 12/3 is for lights and a few outlets . 
     Do I need outside disconnects before I enter my 8x10 shed ? 
     If i was dealing with a garage I would think yes , a generator enclosure I would think no ? 
     A shed ??? 
      I m not sure if the 6/2 generator cable passes power both ways ,  will my generator plug be hot if I have the breaker on for generator input ?   I would hate to have a suicide plug laying on the floor of my shed . 
        I ordered 6/3 cable from my supply house when it came in it was just 6/2  I grabbed it because I would like to get done before it starts snowing but I’m having second thoughts now ? 
     Could I run a larger 6500 watt generator 240 volts in the shed and convert it to 120 volt using both legs of the generator out put .
        The only 220 power I mite need will be for the well pump and I plan to run that line to the well head later on when I hook up the pump . 
                                                                                                              Thanks for the reply’s  John 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    The feed to the shed 12/3 would be a branch circuit of the main distribution so it doesn't require a disconnect outside. The generator 6/2 would be isolated via the inverter's internal transfer, therefore it wouldn't be powered when the generator is not running.

    The circuit breaker for the generator should be at the generator itself being that it is the source, you didn't mention location so thought I'd point it out

    Using a 240V generator you should be able to feed that into the inverter's AC input, the inverter output would provide a split phase output giving 120V, assuming that the Outback 3648 is configured as such.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks  mcgivor , my generator has a breaker on it , and I have a breaker on the power panel in the utility room . 
     Soooo I need a small one breaker box  with a 20 amp gfi breaker or could it be a standard breaker ? 
    for my 2800 watt  Honda generator . 
      Could I just run a 4’ 10 or 12g  flexible lead  from the breaker box to the generator?
      The  shed is 8x10 and the generator is in the rear of the shed the breaker will be on a side wall and for now I will have a standard 3 prong plug . 


     
    I don’t think my out back inverter can take 240 volt from the generator in put line , I do have a grid in put but I don’t think that will work to charge at the same time . 
     Could I step down the power at the generator from 240 v to 120volt and use a larger generator if the need be . 
     
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually I'm surprised looking at the specifications that the Outback 3648 accepts only 120V as the input and is a single 120V output, so  a transformer would be needed if a 240V generator were to be used to supply 120V.

    Since the maximum charging current of the inverter is 45A or 2450VA why would a larger generator be needed other than to power loads in pass through? 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The fx can be series stacked for 240v, but yes, a single unit would be 120v only. 

    I have a pair of them and a 4kw generator, but I have it wired for 120v output and the inverters parallel stacked master/slave.  I use a step-up for a 240v pump.  As well as the 4kw, I can alternatively charge with a honda 2000i by throwing an A/B switch in the genshed and reducing max settings on the inverter to avoid overloading.

    Maybe the genny can be rewired for 120v instead of using a step-down?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭
    Mcgivor  yes I just want to charge battery’s and run a washer dryer , with some lights and radio/ tv on , I don’t think my Honda 2800 generator can do that for me .
     Estragon , I don’t own the larger generator yet but I really need to figure out the ins and out now .
        Thanks for the reply John 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
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