Manuals

HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
Schneider Electric 6848, 80-600, combox. I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the level of operator guidance offered by the owners manual. Is there an engineering level manual for this equipment? I'm finding settings in the computer interface that are not covered in the manuals I have. Also are there other computer based interfaces out for this equipment?
2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
Combox
40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
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Comments

  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    So, I guess that's a no then?
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    I know what you mean about the limited docs and explanations.  I have not seen anything more than what is online for the combox.  I do not think there is another system that will interface with the XW Xanbus system and give you the level of full system control that the combox gives you.
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You do have to look around a bit. The info is out there. You could search this site along with Schneider Solar. Do not get trapped in the Schneider businesses. They are a huge company. Just look at Schneider solar and learn how their website works.

    For instance the link below has been on this site since October. Pretty hard to complain if you do not put the time in.

    https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/353921/new-inverter-xw-pro-new-conext-gateway-with-easy-remote-monitoring-on-conext-insight-2/p1
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a vague recollection of a modbus -> xanbus connection via combox for control/monitoring a few years back.  Don't know if that went anywhere.  There was the Midnite open source "black box" project, for example.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fully developed modbus maps and data both from Outback and Schneider. I only charge if you want me to read the manuals to you ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    I've got the ComBox interface and there seems to be a lot of settings that aren't covered in the manuals that came with the equipment. Active power control for example, doesn't seem to be covered in the manual at all. There are options in the interface that appear to have been disabled but never removed from the program, Grid Voltage Support, one menu down from Grid Support. Doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever on the behavior of the system. I have a hard time believing the documentation doesn't exist. I believe Schneider has such documentation with better explanations of system interactions based on settings. I understand that they don't want to put that level of information in the hands of a home owner with no electrical background. Not all of us fall into that category. Tesla won't sell to anybody but installers for that very reason. I tried. Even submitted all my credentials. Wouldn't even sell me a panel. But I digress, the information is out there. Schneider didn't field this equipment without a few years R&D.
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    Dave Andelini, This is the second time you've commented on one of my posts in what appears to be a condescending tone. I can see by your many posts here that you are very familiar with the equipment and I do greatly appreciate what help you do offer, I know you don't have to do this. But I can do this without this aggressive vibe I'm getting. You guys have a good one.
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    I want to thank everybody in these forums for sharing and answering my questions. I will continue to glean information from this site, but I won't be posting again. Good luck all! Peace, out.
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't take my comment personally ok? It was not even meant for you but to Estragon who kids me over the years here. I kid him back on Canadian politics. Alot of the Canadians I work with in Burnaby kid me often also......
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,729 admin
    HotRod,

    I do hope you can come by and post again... I try to keep moderation (aka censorship) at a low level here. And sometimes "in jokes" (and folks who have just had a "bad day") can appear to (or actually) cross a line.

    Without body language, a forum like this, "jokes" sometimes do "go bad".

    Sincerely,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    Dave Angelini, my bad. I didn't realize you were chastising Estragon about his inability to do research before he posted. LOL
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool ! I have my shields up and with the news down here I am ready for Estragon.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Dave Angelini - Which news would that be?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is such a diverse list, we should start a new thread :'(
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HotRod said:
    Schneider Electric 6848, 80-600, combox. I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the level of operator guidance offered by the owners manual. Is there an engineering level manual for this equipment? I'm finding settings in the computer interface that are not covered in the manuals I have. Also are there other computer based interfaces out for this equipment?
    You're absolutely right about vague instructions for the Combox , followed the quick guide, changed the password  then began to follow instructions, then my transfer switch operated on a timed inverter block which cut power to the router, had to log back in but it wouldn't accept the new, or even old password.

    Went to the Schneider website and downloaded the manual, followed the instructions to do a factory default reset to begin again, the manual says to install the CD supplied, there was no CD, it then says to enter a new password with at least 8 characters, guide says 6, became somewhat frustrated so stopped trying after several hours of no acceptance of the password, even default.

    Next day did another factory default, reformatted the thumb drive and followed the quick guide, everything worked as described, the manual is thin on some details and really doesn't cover all features so there are still questions, which I'll post in a seperate thread. Personally I've never been much good on the IT side, having the luxury of an IT department to do everything in the past, but I am now learning, which is a good thing as I am now the IT department  :#


    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    edited May 29 #17
    mcgivor, thanks for the reply. I too have noticed that the system doesn't run the same on similar days with equal settings. The vagueness isn't restricted to just the Combox, all the equipment seems to be greatly lacking in detailed manuals. This thread is one I've gone back to several times.
     
    https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/24549/schneider-conext-xw-what-nightmares-are-made-of/p1

    Seriously considering ripping it all out, writing a review on here about my trials and tribulations, and then replacing it with something that comes with complete documentation and a user interface where all the settings actually work. I've been a big proponent of Square D, Siemens, and Schneider equipment since I started working in the electrical field. I've always considered them to be a standard in the industry and that sentiment played a big role in my purchasing this equipment. I'm sorely disappointed in the lack of information available. I'm still waiting to hear back from SE, but at this point I'm not expecting much. I'm gonna go ahead and start researching different equipment.
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    It's a shame Midnite Solar is "light years" behind on the release of the B-17 gear. I would imagine it's going to be pricey but if the classic is any indication it will be well thought out. 
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    I'm scouring the forums now to see how people like Outback, Morningstar, and Midnight solar. Seeing what issues they have. Customer support issues, clarity of documentation. I had intended to install a low cost grid-tied system in my shop over the next couple of years. Instead I guess the shop will be getting a very expensive Schneider system that will never operate correctly, not because it's not capable, but because I don't believe I will ever have documentation that will explain how to manipulate it.
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    I am very happy with the Midnite Classic CC and have actually found documentation and white papers from MN that allow for deep drilling down into the inner workings of the CC. I have a CSW inverter ... and have been reasonably happy with it too for the costs. Customer server from Schneider was better when they took phone calls from users.  I understand why they don't now though.
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭✭
    I've had a small amount of direct phone experience with Midnite and Morningstar. Happy with both. They seem more than willing to help with parts and technical inquiries. Midnite also has an online forum that you can get answers to anything, Midnight Solar related. The good folks at Midnight participate so there's a good chance any question will get correctly answered.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    littleharbor2, I had them on the phone several times last summer while installing the equipment and they were super helpful. Then it suddenly stopped. I get why. Now, what took minutes to get an answer, takes days. Really bad for off grid folks. I still have the luxury of the grid, but i bought this equipment to eventually be off the grid. Now I'm very hesitant on that prospect. I think I'll wait until I've replaced the Schneider gear with something else. Somebody who will answer my questions same day. Maybe even go so far as to field a phone call.
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Schneider supports the Pro's and DIY is not something they have decided to pursue in a big way.

    I built my business on supporting DIY and it has been great. I go up to Canada sometimes and get the training, I know the guys and do electronic field testing and circuit validation testing. They are great to work with.and have been very good to me. I was with them when they were Xantrex and Trace before that. Alot of years (decades) flawlessly producing power for us. I also do not have to work anymore, it has to be interesting and grid power systems bore me....

    I understand the frustration but I have always thought that installing a battery based grid tie power system is one of the hardest things there is. It takes alot of learning and due diligence. It also takes time for it to sink in. Outback is the only other company that builds a system like Schneider and their are plenty of hiccups there from support also.

    I would not even put Midnight into a slot until they have built and supported a battery inverter for 5 years. They are great people though.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    I feel like I should have been told I would have to hire a consultant to tune the equipment, regardless of my level of expertise. I've been digging through the Schneider website, as you suggested, and have found little more than what I already have in print. 
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It must be nearly 5 years for Midnite having built and supported a battery inverter.  Hopefully some day they'll sell them to the general public :wink:
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭
    Support becomes a lot less of an issue with proper documentation.
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29 #27
    HotRod said:
    I feel like I should have been told I would have to hire a consultant to tune the equipment, regardless of my level of expertise. I've been digging through the Schneider website, as you suggested, and have found little more than what I already have in print. 
    ...there are people on this forum who have done it themselves.
    You could search this forum. The XW+ install manual does state very clearly in the beginning,

    Audience This Installation Guide is intended for any qualified personnel planning to install the Conext XW+ Inverter/Charger and related system components. Qualified personnel have training, knowledge, and experience in: • Installing electrical equipment • Applying applicable installation codes • Analyzing and reducing the hazards involved in performing electrical work • Installing and configuring batteries • Selecting and using Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) Servicing of batteries must only be performed or supervised by qualified personnel knowledgeable of batteries and the required precautions. Keep unqualified personnel away from batteries. No responsibility is assumed by Schneider Electric for any consequences arising out of the use of this material.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    It must be nearly 5 years for Midnite having built and supported a battery inverter.  Hopefully some day they'll sell them to the general public :wink:
    And also one that is networked with all devices and has a cloud presence for configuration and monitoring. That is why I use Schneider and Outback.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    More documentation can reduce support needs, but there's a balance.  In writing software, for example, exposing too much in docs can lead end users to rely on functionality which may change over time, breaking their application.  It can also let inexperienced or just plain dumb users get themselves way down a rabbit hole.  I don't mind rabbit holes myself, but...

    Schneider may come down on the more conservative side of the balance because of their channels (pros vs DIY).  Their choice.  Lots of folks (maybe most), just want to be able to plug in a toaster, pay someone to take care of the details, and not find themselves in a rabbit hole.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • HotRodHotRod Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭

    ...there are people on this forum who have done it themselves.
    You could search this forum. The XW+ install manual does state very clearly in the beginning,

    Audience This Installation Guide is intended for any qualified personnel planning to install the Conext XW+ Inverter/Charger and related system components. Qualified personnel have training, knowledge, and experience in: • Installing electrical equipment • Applying applicable installation codes • Analyzing and reducing the hazards involved in performing electrical work • Installing and configuring batteries • Selecting and using Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) Servicing of batteries must only be performed or supervised by qualified personnel knowledgeable of batteries and the required precautions. Keep unqualified personnel away from batteries. No responsibility is assumed by Schneider Electric for any consequences arising out of the use of this material.
    What have they done?
    What do you think my issue is that you would post this?
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    1 big ass 24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HotRod said:

    ...there are people on this forum who have done it themselves.
    You could search this forum. The XW+ install manual does state very clearly in the beginning,

    Audience This Installation Guide is intended for any qualified personnel planning to install the Conext XW+ Inverter/Charger and related system components. Qualified personnel have training, knowledge, and experience in: • Installing electrical equipment • Applying applicable installation codes • Analyzing and reducing the hazards involved in performing electrical work • Installing and configuring batteries • Selecting and using Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) Servicing of batteries must only be performed or supervised by qualified personnel knowledgeable of batteries and the required precautions. Keep unqualified personnel away from batteries. No responsibility is assumed by Schneider Electric for any consequences arising out of the use of this material.
    What have they done?
    What do you think my issue is that you would post this?


    That is a disclaimer, intended to protect the manufacturer, which is understandable as they sell equipment to people who may have no formal training in any discipline of the electrical trade. 

    As a fire alarm technician in the past I was factory trained to program and install systems although not an employee of the manufacturer, my work still had to have a third party to perform a verification, despite the fact that I could perform a verification on other's work.
    The company that trained me was a new player in the game, as they became more prominent in the market they suspended my programming privilege, allowing only factory technicians to perform programming,  I could as a qualified electrican still install the equipment.

    As a corporate entity, perhaps Schneider want to distance themselves from unqualified DIY users/installers who probably account for the majority of warranty claims and support needs, due to inexperience and or poor installation practices. Keeping key information critical to the functionality of equipment may be part of the strategy, just a speculation on my behalf, but it dose make sense.

    The information in the manuals supplied for the CSW inverter is very comprehensive, providing detailed information, much of which could be well beyond the scope of  inexperienced users.

    The Tesla business model is the ultimate step in proprietary operations, where only qualified licensed installers are allowed to install the equipment to retain warranty.

    Perhaps what we a seeing with Schneider is a prelude to future changes......who knows.?
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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