Generator on the fritz

palausystem · February 2019

Our Gen won't start and I could use some advice on dealing with a generator service company. They charge $150 an hour, they spent 2 hours to then tell me it could be this, that, or the other thing. Alright, fair enough. The first thing they want to swap out is the fuel regulator (or was it solenoid?). They want me to pay for the part ($150) even if it turns out not to be the problem. Then they would move on to the controller board ($800). Now I don't think i want to pay for that board if it's not bad! Doesn't a good company have the ability to test parts before replacing?

Not sure what to do...

softdown · February 2019

Tell us more about the generator.

palausystem · February 2019

Kohler 8.5 RES, propane. Cranks, begins to rev up, then dies. Undervoltage fault code on readout.

softdown · February 2019

My guess is either a lack of current for the starter or a lack of fuel for the cylinders. Not my forte of course.

I've heard stories about expensive prepper gensets not working when called for. Try googling and youtubing your symptons.

mcgivor · February 2019

Are there loads present when starting? If so disconnect then try a restart.

softdown · February 2019

How cold was it when trying to start?

mcgivor · February 2019

https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/395716#Comment_395716

To test if it's a fuel related issue, remove the air filter, start the engine when its about to die, spray WD40 into the air intake if the revs increase then it's likely a fuel starvation problem, be aware of possible backfire. Narrowing the possibilities will save the cost of replacing parts until it works.

palausystem · February 2019

We tried that stuff - and my guess is it's the board.

My question's more about what I should be expected to pay for...if they put in a new board and it doesn't fix it, Shouldn't that be on them?

stillchillin · February 2019

I have a guess too BRUSHES

palausystem · February 2019

Brushes sound relatively cheap compared to the board. 800+ hrs run time. Why they are not checking those I do not know. I wish I trusted the technician more...

Dave Angelini · February 2019

Are you on Palau? If so you have alot of tropical lightning and that fries gensets. What have you done to harden the system?

I see the service end of this alot and I see both sides of your problem. Can you get a back-up and take more time to search this out?

palausystem · March 2019

Thanks Dave,no we're not on Palau,we're in northern California but its my partner's last name. Yeah, having a backup would be nice. Wish I had more electrical smarts.

They're going to swap out the fuel regulator and solenoid on Mon. I'll keep you posted.

BB. · March 2019

Change the spark plug too (& keep a spare on the shelf). Doesn't hurt to try the cheap stuff first. And there have been enough genset "strange behaviours" that have been fixed by a new spark plug, fuel filter, air filter, etc...

-Bill

Dave Angelini · March 2019

And the cheapest thing you can do to harden equipment like a genset is to unplug both ends when not in use.

I went out to Peleliu in the Palau group to see my Dad and Uncles island for a month during WW2. They had lots of lightning but we get it also in California, just not as often. Last winter it was so bad here I was scared to go out and switch the valve to collect the rain.

Still using Sea Foam Bill? Do you think it has a shelf life?

BB. · March 2019

I am using the "cheap" red preservative "STA-BIL" fuel additive.

The SeaFoam seems to be "more chemically active" than STA-BIL (better ability to dissolve gum and stuff), so it would not surprise me if it did have a shorter shelf life (and why it is packed in a metal container vs STA-BIL's plastic).

-Bill

softdown · March 2019

PRI-G seems to be about the best mainstream fuel preservative. Still best to find ethanol free gasoline for small engines - or anything that sits.

If only I followed my own advice more often.........

Vic · March 2019

https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/395737#Comment_395737

On older gensets with Brushes, one additional thing can be corrosion/dirt/rodent whiz etc, on the field commutator. The gen fires and starts to run, but after about 2 - 3 seconds, it shuts down, because there is NO, or very low AC output voltage.

For more modern gensets, with brushless field excitation, it can be the AC voltage regulator (this can be called different things).

It has been noted, previously, here, that on occasion the Field may need to be "re-flashed", as the field has lost its residual magnetism, but this may not be an issue for modern gensets.

FWIW, guessing done for now. Good luck, Vic

softdown · March 2019

Geez - I get the feeling that almost everybody just swaps parts until they get it right. Can you do that yourself?

Would be nice to have access to a similar working genset to be able to try other parts.

I remember when engine problems were fixed by supplying fuel and spark if there was compression.

stillchillin · March 2019

It is hard to find a good diagnostician these days, I guess it is easier to just throw parts at it until fixed at the customers expense. As far as learning more about a piece of equipment you own it makes sense to get the manual for it and learn about it yourself. Even if you are not familiar with lets say a generator, reading through the manual will start the learning process, the more you know the more you learn. If you can communicate intelligently with your service tech he/she may be more inclined to really fix work at repairing your problem. You may find the manual for your particular generator at emanuals or a similar site. Pay a small fee and download the manual and start learning! Any ways good luck with your problem. Stillchillin

40 years in the refrigeration service field/ 8 years off grid and still learning!

palausystem · March 2019

So they sent two technicians out this time. I'm assuming because the first guy didn't have the experience to diagnose it. The verdict was the "gen-end" needs rebuilding. He said 850 hrs was high for that generator...which I don't believe. The scheduled maintenance shows replacing spark plugs every 500 hrs, so what, one plug change per lifetime? Could be a selling point...

Anyway, he said I might get away with replacing brushes and voltage regulator. They wouldn't do that because they'd have to warranty the work and felt it probably needed more than that. I haven't got their price on a rebuild yet but it's likely to be close to the value of a new one. I wasn't present to talk to them more about how they diagnosed it, hopefully will get to talk to one of them on the phone soon. I know they did not pull the cover to look at the brushes or anything else inside - they said the enclosure covering that end had some spinning bolts they couldn't get at, or something.

So, I will try my hand at the brushes and the SCR module (which does the voltage regulating).

If that doesn't work, it might be time for a new LP gen.

softdown · March 2019

Here is one for sale with over 3600 hours on it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/KOHLER-GENERATOR-8-5RMY-CAP2-8-5KW-NATURAL-GAS-OR-PROPANE-1PH-35-40AMPS/362456027213?epid=4024765385&hash=item546410104d:g:Xb4AAOSwsuNbwJhf:rk:1:pf:0

850 hours seems like a small number to need a substantial rebuild. This isn't a $350 generator. I'm thinking that Amazon and Costco quit carrying Kohler LP gensets and longevity/reliability could be the reason.

Estragon · March 2019

One possible contributing factor to early failure could be the tendency for people to just turn the generator off, rather than running it unloaded for a few minutes so airflow continues while it cools down.

softdown · March 2019

^^^How many people know about that? 1/2 of 1%? I am weary of delicate yet expensive technology that is considered "old" in 1-2 years. No wonder people are broke and in debt.

Dave Angelini · March 2019

My costco has had for 2 years a dual fuel 6KW genset with electric start for $600 or so. I have seen folks return 3 year old gensets.

The online costco is not the same as the store inventory. As Estragon said allow cooldown and disable the charger to enable soft stop of current. That is why people fry the electronics BTW.

solorone · March 2019

I have not read all the post, but I have been off grid for 36 years. A few generators i have had. Kubotas are nice but like your kohler very $$$ and too many things that can go wrong to shut you down.. Now this will do you no good, but for me simple is a lot better. It is amazing how well the cheaper units perform. I believe in generac, I can run one for 100/150$ a year for cost and never buy a part past a plug, got many hours on them. Currently on a champion Duel fuel, 800 hours, cost so far, 150 a year. Now the Kubota was $4000 out the door, the parts were outrageously $$ and belts could only be bought from Kubota. It would have to last 26 years to even out at $150 a year, and that does not include the gosh awful maintenance.,,,,,,,, I ramble, I have learned to keep it simple and have have a backup and maybe an old reliable sitting around. I guess this seems obvious, but the high end crap is getting just like todays cars. you can not hardly work on them yourself and everything is made of gold. I have had no problems with the generac and Champion wave form, seems to mesh nicely with all in my home. Cheers, my .02.

solorone · March 2019

https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/395895#Comment_395895

Hi Dave. I missed your post, dead on right, high end is a dead end.

BB. · March 2019

A small Honda eu2000i should run 2,000 hours and we had a member here that got >6,000 hours (now starting to smoke, harder to start) with just regular oil changes and maintenance.

850 Hours is the equivalent of ~30,000 miles on a car (using 35 mph average speed)... Not great.

-Bill

mike95490 · March 2019

https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/395907#Comment_395907

That is so true. Reason I got a listeroid, it's crank start, and messy to change the oil, but it's based on a sound design.

softdown · March 2019

Reason why I miss 60's stuff. Set of wrenches and sockets, one could rebuild an engine over the week-end and have fun doing it. Now I have to screw up courage to look under the hood.

Once in awhile I lose a bunch of anti-freeze. Then I can go 7000 miles with no problems. Used to be - radiator or cap or pump or hoses or connections. Etc. Etc. Etc.

OK--Funny, but that one was a bit much for our forum. -Bill "moderator" B.

Relax - its a joke.

Dave Angelini · March 2019

I do not miss the 60's other than the music. The way we did solar then was primitive and really expensive. Old hippies running 12V across the river into a house. I like it just fine now.

softdown · March 2019

Aw c'mon. 300 hp cars for $500. Gas for .19 cents. Homes for $15,000 - much less in rural areas. Halter tops and micro minis. Batteries for $12. Concert tickets for $5. Utility companies were eager to supply power to remote locales.

But yea - solar has improved at least 10 fold.

Generator on the fritz

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