Generator Start Module for SW Plus 4024

trumpets3u
trumpets3u Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
I'm looking for a easy way to start a generator off the inverter, it would be a 2 wire to the gen.
Thanks Brian

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Generator Start Module for SW Plus 4024

    An accurate method would be to use a Xantrex or Victron battery monitor with a configurable alarm contact. Set to turn on at 50% state of charge and of at 80 to 90% state of charge (depending on your needs and if you have solar or other charging source).

    Not cheap.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Generator Start Module for SW Plus 4024

    The SWplus removed the three small relays that where included in the original SW series inverters. It was done to remove cost from SWplus unit. Xantrex sold an external box called Generator Start Module.

    Attached is picture of outside of box and internal PCB. There is not much to it. There is an RJ11 jack that connect to SWplus jack. Basically +12vdc to run the relays and three relay control lines. One switch on side of unit disable gen start relay, other switch generates a relay alarm test in SWplus.

    You can read the original SW op manual to understand the three relay operations. Then make an RJ cord with open wires at end to check with DVM for +12vdc connection, and three relay control functions. The relay control functions are just pull down logic to activate relay 12 vdc coil so you need a pull up resistor to test for them with DVM.
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Generator Start Module for SW Plus 4024

    I know this is an old thread but I don't know if you ever solved your problem. You don't actually need a Xantrex GSM - you can build your own with a couple ice cube relays. The pinout on the inverter jack for the GSM is:

    Pin 1 and pin 2 are 12V Power supply to the GSM
    Pin 3: RY7 signal
    Pin 4: RY8 signal
    Pin 5: RY11 signal
    Pin 6: not used

    RY7 is used for ignition enable/disable, or glow/stop with a diesel. This is set in Menu Heading 25 under 25A, depending on whether you select the GS, RN1 or RN2. GS (Glow/Stop) provides a momentary glow plug and stop signal to RY7, RN1 provides a continuous RY7 signal for engines that require ignition "on".

    Cranking is provided by RY8.

    RY11 is an alarm relay.

    All three relays in the GSM have a common, NO and NC terminal.
    --
    Chris
  • looneym
    looneym Registered Users Posts: 3
    Hello Chris I am trying without success to get this to work with an ice cube relay. I am thinking the pinout on the RJ11 is reversed or something when I use a DVM and toggle through the functions on the inverter. I would love to just have the GSM board and cabling but I have been searching for months to no avail. Any help would be appreciatted

    Thanks
    Greg
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Greg,  Chris was banned from the forum. Unfortunately he will not respond. Since the SW + has been obsolete for 12 years + you will have to do what was suggested in post 2 or 3. The used gear on E-bay is often just a waste of time if you can find it.

    The replacement for your inverter is the CSW and here is a link to the north american version..
    https://solar.schneider-electric.com/product/conext-sw-na/

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • looneym
    looneym Registered Users Posts: 3
    Thanks for the reply and the link Dave. I do not want to replace the inverters. They are great units and have been operating flawlessly. I purchased a 6kw Generac EcoGen a couple years back and have just been turning it on manually to charge the batteries on cloudy days. I recently purchased a new conext box that monitors the batteries and tied in a Xanbus GSM to auto start the generator. Unfortunately the conext only can monitor battery level and charge state so it cannot make good decisions on exactly when the generator needs to run based on A/C load and battery level combined. I can make circuit boards very easy so this is not a complex task to reproduce one I would like to get my hands on the cable and the Trace GSM so I can duplicate it. I would be happy to offer anyone who has one some of my duplicated spares if they could lend me one to design against. 
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018 #8
    Could you not use a current transformer/switch  with a dry contact,  placed on the inverter output which will only enable generator start based on loads greater than X amps, but overridden by low battery voltage, just an idea to ponder.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    So you have the conext battery monitor? If so can't you buy the Conext gen start module and start based on Soc? At least this way you are moving toward devices that will be supported for a very long time into the future.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually I appreciate @iooneym 's thoughts, say for example you had an air conditioning unit which comes on, why wait for the battery to be depleted before the generator picks up the load, using a current transformer/switch would sence the demand before the battery monitoring could respond, this could naturally be incorporated with the AGS, just a method of of quick response, sorry automaton and controls is in my blood, did it for 35+years.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    If you look at what the conext genstart module can do some time you might appreciate how easy it is to do just about anything.

    It is automation on steroids! It can sense any medium/large loads and be set also for any state of charge. Lots more that I can't remember...

     The op may not be able to use all of its function because he does not have the inverter/charger data from xanbus. With an SCP, and battery monitor he can set it to trigger on any Soc.

    I am glad that I do not need a generator though ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • looneym
    looneym Registered Users Posts: 3
    Thanks for everyone's input and replies greatly appreciated. I found a guy in Spain who had three brand new ones for sale on eBay. I purchased one and had it shipped to a freight forwarder in London as the seller refused sales to the US. Got the module and plugged it in and I am now good to go. FYI The RJ11 cable was reversed (like a telephone cable) so the pin orientation had to be reversed from ChrisOlson's post. If anyone else needs one and there is none to be had any longer I can now duplicate off the one I purchased. 
  • TwanD78
    TwanD78 Registered Users Posts: 1
    Hello Looneym, 

    I am hoping to duplicate the GSM function also since I can’t seem to find anything to purchase so far. Have SW plus and Kohler 8.5RES needing auto startup. I don’t mind building a relay board for it if that’s my best option. So far the wiring diagrams I found aren’t quite clear enough to me. Could you provide a ladder diagram or something to help us get to an auto start/stop setup? This system is off grid, no utility power with the SW plus 2524. 24VDC batteries. The Kohler 8.5 has an ADC-RES controller. So far we charge the batteries by going outside to manually start the generator. 

    Any help is SO MUCH APPRECIATED! 

    Twan
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018 #14

    Hi Twan..,

    We do have an SW+ GSM,   but little time to delve into it.

    Will try to check it out.

    It is very basic.   Just relays,   and PC board traces.   All of the smarts are in the Firmware in the SW+ inverters.

    It would seem that these would show up on e-bay,   at least on occasion.

    More later (perhaps).   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • gwerschler
    gwerschler Registered Users Posts: 1

    I have a brand new Xantrex GSM - Generator Start Module for SW Plus for sale I never used it with my SW 4024 inverter now have a Magnum inverter first $100 can have it.

    thanks Gary

  • imsaguy86
    imsaguy86 Registered Users Posts: 1
    Gary, I will take your GSM!!!!!
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    You might try sending Gary a private message:

    https://forum.solar-electric.com/messages/add/gwerschler

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • JohnMaine
    JohnMaine Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1
    I'm looking for a bit of advice in connecting the GSM to a SW4024. The original generator start function stopped working after a lightning strike but I love the inverter. I have purchased the GSM and connected it to the generator. I have the RJ11 cable, but here's the problem. The SW4024 does not seem to have the RJ11 plug, since of course it had internal generator start functionality. I am thinking that I need to strip the other end of the RJ cable and attach it to the relays in the SW4024. Before I undertake this (I'm not an electrician), do you have any advice or directions for me, in terms of making the connection at the SW4024?  I can see relays 7 and 8 inside the unit . . . . Thanks for any guidance you might be able to provide.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    What have you to lose? If the inverter (that is long obsolete) has been hit with lightning, go for it. If this is offgrid and your only source of power you should be getting a spare for this inverter. It may have latent damage from the lightning that will surface one day soon.

    To do what you want to do you are going to have to disable the internal start circuitry and relays. You probably need a schematic and you will have to be more of a electronics technician than an electrician. Most electricians do not go down to component level. They would replace the unit.

    Maybe someone else can give you more info.  To me, you are beyond rejuvenation and at replacement. Good Luck!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Before opening up the inverter and mucking about the relays, I'd simply hook a $5 ethernet cable on and chop the ends and use that to connect the GSM.   But I'm an engineer and I'm not comfortable about you working around in inverter with lethal voltages (when you yourself state I'm not an electrician),
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a bit of confusion in this thread. An SW4024 is not the same as an SW4024+.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net