Is c10 battery in anyway performs better in offgrid setup

solarking
solarking Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Is it a myth c10 battery performs better than c20 battery in solar offgrid setup or it is just a marketing gimmick?
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Every lead-acid battery has a rated storage capacity depending upon how quickly you drain power from it.

    Some manufacturers publish their battery capacity ratings for numbers between 1 hour and 120 hours. This allows you see what your storage capacity will be for a specific application.

    I have never heard anyone make that claim that you mention above. Where did that come from?

    Marc
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    By "c10", are you referring to the capacity rating (i.e. X amp hour at a 10 hour rate of discharge)? If so, the 10hr rate capacity battery would have a higher capacity at a 20hr rate than an equally rated 20hr rated battery. For example, two batteries both rated at 100ah, one at c10 and one at c20. The c10 one might be 120ah when discharged at a 20hr rate vs 100ah for the c20 one.

    A caveat to this is the batteries may be rated at different discharge rates because they may be designed for different applications. A c10 battery may be designed to deliver higher current for a short time, in a UPS for example. Off-grid, we want batteries designed for slower, deeper discharge (thicker plates, etc). Non deep cycle batteries won't last long in a deep cycle application.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Please note that some manufacturers have used C20 or c10 to describe charging rates as well. I believe some Gel batteries can only handle a 1/20th charge rate. This would be too slow for most solar applications.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Photowhit said:
    Please note that some manufacturers have used C20 or c10 to describe charging rates as well. I believe some Gel batteries can only handle a 1/20th charge rate. This would be too slow for most solar applications.
    Good call - I tend forget about that.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    It would help to post links to examples of the two batteries being considered.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • solarking
    solarking Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭
    #7
    jonr said:
    It would help to post links to examples of the two batteries being considered.
    Hi Jonr,

    6LMS150L(c10) vs IT500(c20)
    not to be confused with US Exide these are different

    Comparing the specs I think c20 200AH battery is same as c10 150AH.  Correct me if I am wrong




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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017 #8
    I'd say that a C10 rating is worth an extra 10-20% over C20 - ie, C10@150AH might rate C20@172AH.  For solar use, get the first one - it has more lead in it (it's heavier) and will survive more cycles (based on the specs).

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • mvas
    mvas Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017 #9
    Exide 6LMS150
    =============

    C10 Rating = 150AH down to 10.8 Volts

    80% DOD = 1,500 cycles =   4.1 years
    50% DOD = 3,000 cycles =   8.2 years
    20% DOD = 5,000 cycles = 13.6 years

    Even for "Lab Cycles" that is very impressive.
    So, how will age / time affect those Lab Cycles, over a 5 year period?
    In the real world, can we expect 50% DOD or 75AH every day for 5 years?
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #10

    mvas said:
    Exide 6LMS150
    =============

    C10 Rating = 150AH down to 10.8 Volts

    80% DOD = 1,500 cycles =   4.1 years
    50% DOD = 3,000 cycles =   8.2 years
    20% DOD = 5,000 cycles = 13.6 years

    Even for "Lab Cycles" that is very impressive.
    So, how will age / time affect those Lab Cycles, over a 5 year period?
    In the real world, can we expect 50% DOD or 75AH every day for 5 years?
    Add temperature to that list, 10°C over 25 would significantly  reduce the life expectancy, as much as 50% or more.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Temp would almost certainly affect lifespan. Would it affect both equally?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Nila
    Nila Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    #12
    mcgivor said:

    mvas said:
    Exide 6LMS150
    =============

    C10 Rating = 150AH down to 10.8 Volts

    80% DOD = 1,500 cycles =   4.1 years
    50% DOD = 3,000 cycles =   8.2 years
    20% DOD = 5,000 cycles = 13.6 years

    Even for "Lab Cycles" that is very impressive.
    So, how will age / time affect those Lab Cycles, over a 5 year period?
    In the real world, can we expect 50% DOD or 75AH every day for 5 years?
    Add temperature to that list, 10°C over 25 would significantly  reduce the life expectancy, as much as 50% or more.
    That is a problem :), I am actually buying this exact model battery but i am pretty sure the average temperatures in the day here are 30c year around, close to 40 in summer and around 25 in winters but even 5 years @ 50% DOD for the price we pay is not bad at all
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