Are marine solar panels worth the extra money?

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,901 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
In my efforts to eventually go liveaboard, I have joined some sailboat forums. Pretty clever fellows with a touch of arrogance now and then...

We are having a lil debate about the economics of "marine grade" panels. I thought "Who better to ask than the old pros at solar-electric. Gimmicky marketing or the real deal?
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • dennis461
    dennis461 Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Well, my roof panels have an exclusion in the warranty, ".. Use of products on mobile units such as vehicles or water vessels.".
    So, that alone might be a good reason to check your proposed panels and buy "marine grade"..
    Camden County, NJ, USA
    19 SW285 panels
    SE5000 inverter
    grid tied
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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017 #3
    Marine rated stuff is usually pretty tough.
    What are the specs on these "marine panels"?

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,901 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017 #4
    oil pan 4 said:
    Marine rated stuff is usually pretty tough.
    What are the specs on these "marine panels"?
    Sorry....I don't know. Did not know of their existence until yesterday. I watch a lot of sailing videos on youtube. Nobody has mentioned marine grade solar panels. I have the impression that ordinary panels do pretty well for quite some time. Just trying to make sure...

    Where is Angelini? I'll bet he knows a thing or two about this.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017 #5
    Everything marine grade needs to cope with harsh salt air environments, PC boards are coated, different metals in contact with one another need to be avoided, sacrificial zink anodes need to be placed on the hull, the list goes on and on, much to research, Im no expert by any stretch of the imagination but have worked in comercial fishing for a short while to have scraped the surface.
    http://www.marinewireandcable.com/2013/10/basic-considerations-for-marine-wire.html
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    I'm pretty sure if they could get twice the price for "marine" Corn Flakes, they would sell such a thing. The only reason they don't is the limit to consumers' gullibility.

    That said, a "marine" panel may be worth something of a premium. As well as *maybe* better protection against corrosion and vibration, they *may * be higher efficiency, which is a factor given limited space on a boat. I might be willing to pay a modest premium for panels that really offer these advantages.

    If they're talking about flexible "marine" panels though, I wouldn't.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    I hope they aren't just talking about the flexible panels, I could not find anything in terms of a marine rating.


    I loaned my dad a solarex solar panel, for his pontoon boat, It lasted 2-3 years, the old Solar charge controller (an old Specialty concepts with contact points eventually failed. This was in the 1990's in salt air on Florida's gulf coast, I used the solar panel for many more years, until the portable array I created, was blown over in 60-70mph straight line winds.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Arth777
    Arth777 Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭
    #8
    I made a DIY street light solar that used normal PV and after a year the PV frame got corroded by the hi humidity and salt spray because I lived in Phuket that near by the ocean then I changed to Victron Energy marine grade and found they built tough and seal the silicone on the back sheet better than the previous .I think its worth the money if you live near the ocean.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Arth777 said:
    I made a DIY street light solar that used normal PV and after a year the PV frame got corroded by the hi humidity and salt spray because I lived in Phuket that near by the ocean then I changed to Victron Energy marine grade and found they built tough and seal the silicone on the back sheet better than the previous .I think its worth the money if you live near the ocean.

    I guess I should say the frame did oxidize a bit in the salt air, but pretty much just dulled the finish. The output was not effected.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • kaipo_boy
    kaipo_boy Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    #10
    Softdown, the touch of arrogance is required in order to face the sometimes adverse environment :)
    Agree, where is Dave? He's lived on a boat a few years...

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,901 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    kaipo_boy said:
    Softdown, the touch of arrogance is required in order to face the sometimes adverse environment :)
    Agree, where is Dave? He's lived on a boat a few years...


    I think Dave left the boating scene in the 90's. I may tend to doubt that marine grade solar was a big deal in the early 90's. Could be wrong of course.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Solray
    Solray Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Find out if any panels are warranted for use on boats and if warrantee is an issue to you , use the ones that are. If you don't care about a warrantee it doesn't matter. Warrantees won't cover any incidental damage the panel causes to other equipment and panels are so cheap the warrantee is irrelevant to some people. It's easier to have a spare panel or 2 tucked away and just swap it out rather than mess around with returns and shipping costs that may or may not be covered.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
    If you are cruising the open oceans and absolutely will die if you loose power, then the added reliability of a "marine grade" (whatever that means this week)  might be for you.  But if you are just doing weekend jaunts, save money.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,901 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    mike95490 said:
    If you are cruising the open oceans and absolutely will die if you loose power, then the added reliability of a "marine grade" (whatever that means this week)  might be for you.  But if you are just doing weekend jaunts, save money.
    I plan to cruise the open oceans and own six unused Topoints at ~195 watts/panel. Think I will silicone seal the junction box and "see how they do".  Using 3 or 4 at a time. A smaller boat may not have room for four off of the stern.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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