Solar Kid or TS-MPPT? Which one?

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rp3703
rp3703 Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭
in Solar Product Reviews & Opinions #1

So I am putting together a solar electric system that will use 3 270 watt panels to get 810 watts total and those panels will be used to charge a series parallel 24V/460AH bank of four 6 volt titan 105’s. I now need to make a decision on a charge controller. I have narrowed it down to either the Midnite Solar Kid or the Morning Star TS-MPPT-45 but would appreciate any other suggestions as well as any input on experiences using these two units.

1860 W (6) Rensola JC310M, Classic 150, 430AH@24V (8) Deka DSGC15 FLA's, Victron Phoenix Multi 24/2500 Inverter
Powering-20.5 CuFt. Fridge, 1 HP Submersible water pump, UV, Washing Machine, Gas Dryer, Gas Stove, Lights and Receptacles
Off Grid Cottage on lake in Northern Ontario 46˚N 
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    rp3703 said:
    "...a series parallel 24V/460AH bank of four 6 volt titan 105’s...."
    Are they just in series for 24 volts?

    I would prefer the TS-MPPT-45, just because, as one of our former moderators was fond of saying "Loads grow" and so do system, it would be nice to have the extra room to add some panels.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • rp3703
    rp3703 Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭
    #3
    I was thinking series & parallel with 4 6V 220AH Trojan's for a 24V 440AH output. So by "loads grow" you mean get an over sized charge controller? The Midnite allows you to run multiple units as the system load increases.
    1860 W (6) Rensola JC310M, Classic 150, 430AH@24V (8) Deka DSGC15 FLA's, Victron Phoenix Multi 24/2500 Inverter
    Powering-20.5 CuFt. Fridge, 1 HP Submersible water pump, UV, Washing Machine, Gas Dryer, Gas Stove, Lights and Receptacles
    Off Grid Cottage on lake in Northern Ontario 46˚N 
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Photowhit said:
    rp3703 said:
    "...a series parallel 24V/460AH bank of four 6 volt titan 105’s...."
    Are they just in series for 24 volts?

    I would prefer the TS-MPPT-45, just because, as one of our former moderators was fond of saying "Loads grow" and so do system, it would be nice to have the extra room to add some panels.
    For that matter why not  go with  the TS 60 MPPT,  and oh yes,, you will expand , it's an evolution 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    rp3703 said:
    I was thinking series & parallel with 4 6V 220AH Trojan's for a 24V 440AH output. So by "loads grow" you mean get an over sized charge controller? The Midnite allows you to run multiple units as the system load increases.

    If they are in series  +6-+6-+6-+6- = 24 volts @ 220 aamphours

    If they are in series and parallel
           +6-+6-
    +<                 >- = 12 volt @ 440 amp hours
            +6-+6-

    At 12 volts, the array might fit on a Morning Star TS-MPPT-45 but you would be better off going to a 60 amp charge controller

    At 24 volts, either would work x2 the voltage = 1/2 the amps
    amps x volts =watts
    watts/amps=volts
    watts/volts=amps


    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,693 admin
    #6
    10% rate of charge (nominal for full time off grid) of a 440 AH battery bank would be 44 amps... If you ever decide to go a bit more say 13% rate of charge:
    • 440 AH * 29 volts charging * 0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.13 rate of charge = 1,277 Watt array
    • 440 AH * 0.13 rate of charge = 57 Amps charging current (typical maximum rate of charge)
    A 60 amp charge controller would certainly be justifiable if/when you decide to add a bit more to your array.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    BB. said:
     
    440 AH * 29 volts charging * 0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.13 rate of charge = 1,277 Watt array
    I don't think his balance of panels to battery bank is bad here, I suspect we have the battery count correct at 4, just not the correct amp hour rating.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • rp3703
    rp3703 Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭
    #8
    Sorry, bad math. Four 6V 225AH T105's wired series/parallel would yield 12V @ 450AH. Bill, you already did my load calculations in this thread http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/351661/water-pressure-pump#latest . You came up with 790 Watts and 440 AH.
    1860 W (6) Rensola JC310M, Classic 150, 430AH@24V (8) Deka DSGC15 FLA's, Victron Phoenix Multi 24/2500 Inverter
    Powering-20.5 CuFt. Fridge, 1 HP Submersible water pump, UV, Washing Machine, Gas Dryer, Gas Stove, Lights and Receptacles
    Off Grid Cottage on lake in Northern Ontario 46˚N 
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,693 admin
    #9
    Sorry. Quick skim and saw 24 volt.

    Continue on!

    - Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • rp3703
    rp3703 Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭
    #10
    So it sounds like the consensus is on Morning Star. With only about $100 difference between the 45 and the 60, I'll probably just go with the 60. Thanks for the help.
    1860 W (6) Rensola JC310M, Classic 150, 430AH@24V (8) Deka DSGC15 FLA's, Victron Phoenix Multi 24/2500 Inverter
    Powering-20.5 CuFt. Fridge, 1 HP Submersible water pump, UV, Washing Machine, Gas Dryer, Gas Stove, Lights and Receptacles
    Off Grid Cottage on lake in Northern Ontario 46˚N 
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    mcgivor said:
    For that matter why not  go with  the TS 60 MPPT,  and oh yes,, you will expand , it's an evolution 
    And you get the spiffy web server in it too.  Owning both Midnight an Morningstar, my 3rd controller was another MS-MPPT-60
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    If the choice was kid vs ts45, I would go for the ts in this application.

    Looking at a 60 for future expansion though, I might consider a MN classic good for 96a.
    Off-grid.  
    Main system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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