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ibdumb
ibdumb Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Have 2 panels on pole mount. What size wire do I use to run from panels to input breaker and then to charge controller? and from battery to charge controller?

Also from battery to inverter. I assume they will all be the same size??? The distance is about 20 feet or less.

THANKS in advance
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #2
    We'll need to know the size of the panels, volts and amps, and how they are configured, in series or parallel, if in parallel will they be combined at the panels or at the charge controller.

    The inverter to battery will depend on the size of the inverter and distance to the battery bank. Also the voltage the inverter will run at...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • ibdumb
    ibdumb Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #3
    2 Solar World 285 watt panels in series with H4 connector cables.

    Tri Star MPPT charge controller 45 amp up to 150 VOC input, 12 - 48 volts, 12v-600 watts 24v-1200 watts 11.4' x 5.1 x 5.6'.

    The inverter is a 2800 watt, 12 volt/125 amp pfc charger ETL/UL 1741 listed. Less than 12 feet to batter bank.

    I'm trying to run a 230 volt water pump.

    Hope this is enough info to help with an answer. Getting complicated eh???


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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    panel specs?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Assuming they are these panels;

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjntKiO-MTRAhUM42MKHU1EBGsQFghCMAA&url=https://www.solarworld-usa.com/~/media/www/files/datasheets/sunmodule-plus/sunmodule-solar-panel-285-mono-ds.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEaygXj9Gdsmq_fCTtdfXH9kQ_ZvA&sig2=Us7IzGp8bfPqEA-21U-GzA

    They are 31.3volts vmp and 9.2 amps IMP, in series they would max around 18.4 amps (at 31.3 volts). for the 20 foot trip to the charge controller, You will lose about 2.25 percent of voltage with 10 gauge wire, usually less than 2 percent as panels actually produce about 75% of their panel rating. That is with in the 2-3% we like to see, Your charge controller I would assume is very near your batteries?

    The distance from your battery bank to inverter is very large at 12 feet, do to the low voltage. I don't know what your pump requires, watt wise, but to deliver full wattage with a 2-3% drop in voltage, 2800watts / 12= 233 amps!

    This would give you 2.25% loss in voltage with 4/0 cable, even this may create problems with voltage sag, depending on the size of your battery bank and Low voltage warning/shut off.

    Others will be along to check my figures, I'm not sure where the power factor correcting charger comes into play.


    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    @Photowhit said

    They are 31.3volts vmp and 9.2 amps IMP, in series they would max around 18.4 amps (at 31.3 volts). for the 20 foot trip to the charge controller,

    Think parallel was meant as series would double the voltage. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #7
    mcgivor said:
    @Photowhit said

    They are 31.3volts vmp and 9.2 amps IMP, in series they would max around 18.4 amps (at 31.3 volts). for the 20 foot trip to the charge controller,

    Think parallel was meant as series would double the voltage. 

    'My bad' He does say in series, So It should be 9.2 amps at 62.6 volts, so I think he can get away with 12 gauge with less than 2% loss. Good catch Mcgivor!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #8
    Series may be too high as it appears a 12V battery is being used, if that is the case, parallel would be a better option, would it not? 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    mcgivor said:
    Series may be too high as it appears a 12V battery is bei used, if that is the case, parallel would be a better option, would it not? 

    Yes, I agree, and it's close enough to have minimal losses with reasonable wire size.

    So 'IB', Charge controllers tend to have the best efficiency at about 2x the system voltage, so charging a 12 volt battery would be around 14 volts... if you run higher voltage they will handle it up to their capacity, but generate more loss in the form of heat. Heat also tends to shorten the life of electronics.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    The inverter is a 2800 watt, 12 volt/125 amp pfc charger ETL/UL 1741 listed. Less than 12 feet to batter bank.
    I'm trying to run a 230 volt water pump.

    Tell me more about the pump.  1/3hp ?  deep well?  pressure booster ?

    That voltage drop from battery,12 feet to inverter is going to be tough,  Anyway to move the inverter closer and run the 230V wire ?
    If I was to do this over, I'd base it on a 24 or even 48V system to be able to handle that pump.  Most pumps have a pretty awful starting surge:



    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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  • ibdumb
    ibdumb Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #11
    Photowhit said:
    mcgivor said:
    @Photowhit said

    They are 31.3volts vmp and 9.2 amps IMP, in series they would max around 18.4 amps (at 31.3 volts). for the 20 foot trip to the charge controller,

    Think parallel was meant as series would double the voltage. 

    Sorry guys, I do have 4 batteries CB6-250AH. 2 will be in parallel and 2 in series. So from above comments looks like10 ga will work...Thanks for all the comments...Will try to get all the info in the next time.

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