initialize 2 s-530 batteries

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

Freewilley wrote: »

Answered the charge settings back in post 20....lol
AND in post 21 Bill suggested I change absorb time to 4 hours and I did this immediately....

I thought that your charge settings in post 20 referred to your settings on the MX. The FX inverter/charger settings are not necessarily the same. They are set in a different set of menus on the Mate. Do you know how to check (and set) the FX charge settings?

--vtMaps

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

Freewilley wrote: »

Sorry about that. I thought you wanted the mx settings and I am not too familiar with the mate.
I got the manual and tried to comply, but I failed.
I used p 108 of mate manual and went to status/cc/meter but my screen on mate did not correspond to manual.
Can you walk me thru this?

From the Mate's main menu choose: ADV (advanced)

enter your password (141)

Choose the device you want to interact with: FX

Choose Category: CHGR

Now use the DOWN button to scroll through the various settings.

Note: when you set the Charger Limit you are telling the FX how many AC amps it may draw from the generator to charge the battery. The AC amps (at 120 volts) are about one tenth of the DC amps into a 12 volt battery, so if you set your AC amps to 6, you will be pushing less (because of inefficiency) than 60 amps into your battery.

As you scroll through the settings (with the DOWN button) you will come to absorb setpoint (where you set the absorb voltage) and absorb time.

--vtMaps

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

Freewilley wrote: »

And is it 6 amps AC that I want to set it for (considering it is 2 s-530s only at this point).

So, the mate/fx combo overrules the MX? Or are they talking about 2 different things, the former the genny and the latter the solar?

I think 6 amps AC is about right for those batteries. The MX and the FX arer two separate charging systems, each with their own settings.

Freewilley wrote: »

settings
absorb 14aac
absorb time limit 1 hour, which I changed to 4.1
float setpoint 13.8
time period 2.3
Refloat setpoint 12.5 vdc
Equalize setpoint 15.5
time period 2.0

"Absorb 14aac" makes no sense. I think you are talking about the absorb setpoint which should be at least 14.4 volts (actually, I'm not sure... what does Rolls recommend for that battery?)

Setting the absorb time limit to 4.1 hours means that if you run your generator more than 4.1 hours into absorb, it will effectively stop charging. You may be in Bulk for awhile before you begin the absorb time.

--vtMaps

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

Will,

Here is a link to download the Surrette Flooded/AGM Battery Manual:

http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/654-battery-user-manual-flooded-agm

It has some good info. Wayne's charger set point data is contained in this manual and some other good general info on EQ etc.

Here is a link to the pdf Data Sheet for your S-530 battery. It shows the different Capacities vs the Rate of discharge:
http://rollsbattery.com/public/specsheets/S-530.pdf

Not trying to bury you in added "data". Good Luck, Vic

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

waynefromnscanada wrote: »

Reading from the manual I just got from the Surrette factory with my new Series 4000 renewable energy Surrette batteries, which should include the S-530:
Bulk/Absorption
0c to 16C - - - 15 Volts
17C to 27C - - 14.4 Volts
28C to 40C - - 14.16 Volts
Float (all temperatures) 13.14 Volts
Equalization 15.48 to 16.02 Volts

According to Steve Higgins, the Surrette manual is obsolete and in need of rewriting. The revised Trojan manual is closer to Steve's recommendations. The Trojan manual also illustrates the finishing charge (though it doesn't label it as such). Steve has suggested that I absorb to 58.8 and once a week or preferable 3-4 times per week, I set float to near 60V. Most solar charge controllers don't support the 4th finishing phase and hence the 64V float recommendation. Not following those recommendations per se. Instead I do 'backwards' boost charging and absorb to very low current to fake out a partial finishing charge every day.

Charge controllers: Bulk 58.6V, Absorb 59.8V. The inverter runs grid support at 1 volt less than these set points, which effectively makes them 57.6V and 58.8V.

Inverter: Bulk 58.8V, Absorb 60V. The inverter charges the batteries when the generator is exercised. I have the generator exercised every 2 weeks. I use additional non-standard settings to exercise the generator under productive load. The inverter treats a AC-source-change as a power outage and it will charge the batteries regardless of the ReCharge volts setting. So I take advantage of this to do the 60V recommendation. The 60V is held all the way down to 6 amps.

I have observed both inverter and charge controllers, they are both honoring the bulk setting for 1 hour with no early exit, despite being less (rather than more) and then go to the absorption setting with exit at 2% of configured AH capacity, or when the absorption timeout is reached (defaults to 180min, have it set to 360min). I lied and told it 300AH when it is really 800AH so absorption exits at 6A instead of 16A, and my batteries do absorb down to 6A before the absorption timeout.

I do EQ with the charge controllers. Bulk 59.8, Abosrb 61.0, Float 64.0, let it run all day at 64V. Multi-step EQ keeps the currents low at the elevated voltages. I do EQ whenever I water the batteries. The water consumption is pretty low and it is a waste of time to do it every month so I do it every 2 months and I do EQ they day after watering to get it all mixed up into the acid.

I am grid-tied and I do live in AZ where sun is quite abundant and the environment is friendly for slow charging and long abosrptions (which Xantrex don't like to do and it has to be jury-rigged with non-standard settings to achieve). Settings won't work as well for off-gridders in less sunny places (boost charge feature was built for these people where bulk higher than absorb gets batteries fully charged faster).

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

YehoshuaAgapao wrote: »

Steve has suggested that I absorb to 58.8 and once a week or preferable 3-4 times per week, I set float to near 60V. Most solar charge controllers don't support the 4th finishing phase and hence the 64V float recommendation. Not following those recommendations per se. Instead I do 'backwards' boost charging and absorb to very low current to fake out a partial finishing charge every day.

waynefromnscanada wrote: »

But Coot, he wants to sell MORE batteries, and the sooner the better, so don't go spoiling his income by warning folks against murdering their batteries!

You are referring to Steve Higgins. Steve was an Outback employee until his move to Surrette. He was an able and intelligent voice on the Outback forum, which IMO has gone down hill since his departure. I think the 64 volt float was YehoshuaAgapao's idea and I doubt that Steve would endorse it.

--vtMaps

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

If I recall the only time I have seen the Float Voltage talked about ever being used that high was to get around the hour time limit on the Xantrex's time limit on the Equalize mode. 64 V is lunacy, even 60 V is is to high.

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

YehoshuaAgapao wrote: »

I'm using a giant cross-mutation of a few people's input plus the Trojan manual. Steve's 60V float, Chris's aggressive voltage regimen, Chris's finishing charge. The common denometor is to feed in the volts but not at too high a current.

I see 60V absorb. Less 1V is 59V. Looks like a normal absorb setting. 51.5V float is rather low, very far from 60V?

Whater usage is low. As it's going with my batteries, I'll use almost 1/4 gallon per cell for 6 summer months.

How deep you discharge the batteries?

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

YehoshuaAgapao wrote: »

20-30%, on weekdays only. Until the moonsoon is over. After early-mid september, daily load shaving will cease until May of next year, but I'll exercise discharge the batteries once in a while.

I used 2/3 gallon for 48 cells for 2 months, which is 0.013888 (1/72) gallons per cell. Scale that to 6 months, it is .041666 (1/24) gallons per cell. 1/12 Gallon per cell when scalled to your number of cells (24) over 6 months. That is pretty low compared to 1/4 gallon.

The water measurement wasn't precise. The battery watering jug holds 2 liters, I used the full jug, plus another 8-12oz.

Thanks. That's very little water usage. Your cells are about half the size of mine, so the difference is somewhere 3 times. You probably have lesser discharge than I do, but still it's 2 times difference! Of course, in winter I'm going to use much less than this. Do you use miser caps of anything of that sort?

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

YehoshuaAgapao wrote: »

Probably because of the shallow cycles (entering absorption before 9AM while solar current is still low), boosted by the backwards-boost charging, the batteries don't experience high current during absorption. Plus they are effectively being floated at 50.7-51.5V (52.5V - 1 volt for inverter grid support - temperature compensation)

Your cycles might be shallower than you think. With 20-30% discharges you would get few hours of bulk in the morning because production is low.

Re: initialize 2 s-530 batteries

YehoshuaAgapao wrote: »

Usually draw about 5-6KWh between 5:30PM and 8:00PM. It mathamatically computes to about 13%, but the voltage settles at a level more like 20-30%. Usually in absorption by 8-9AM and absorption exit is between 10:30AM and 11AM.

I would trust 13% more. My batteries need real long time to move to the rest voltage when disconnected from anything - several hours at least.