Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

spanel
spanel Solar Expert Posts: 36 ✭✭
in PV Installers Forum - NEC, Wiring, Installation #1
I made this diagram for my upcoming project. Any comment, things need added changed?

thanks!

Chris
· Share on Twitter

Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    Not bad. A tad confusing on the small screen, so the points I'll mention may be irrelevant.

    1). If your PV array has more than two parallel connections remember to fuse all.
    2). There appear to be two positive connections & fuses between the batteries and monitor.
    3). What is the inverter? If it is an inverter/charger then the transfer switch is redundant and AC In to the inverter should take its place.

    Someone else might see other issues. Hang on. :roll:
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    Like me. :p

    4). Grounding of battery negative?
    5). AC neutral-ground bond? (One point only. Do not do if MSW inverter.)
    6). Do not ground generator separately, because of above.
    · Share on Twitter
  • spanel
    spanel Solar Expert Posts: 36 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas
    1). If your PV array has more than two parallel connections remember to fuse all.

    Only one Solar Panel.
    2). There appear to be two positive connections & fuses between the batteries and monitor.

    I havent got the monitor yet.. so it might only take 1 fuse (I was going off someone elses diagram for that.)
    3). What is the inverter? If it is an inverter/charger then the transfer switch is redundant and AC In to the inverter should take its place.

    Morningstar 300
    4). Grounding of battery negative?
    Are you saying I need to ground the negitive terminal of the batteries? Do you have a diagram that I could get a better idea of what your suggesting?

    EDIT: Should I ground the disconnect right before the batteries?


    5). AC neutral-ground bond? (One point only. Do not do if MSW inverter.)
    6). Do not ground generator separately, because of above.

    Am Ok with then If im using the Morningstar 300?

    Thanks!!

    Chris
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas
    spanel wrote: »
    Only one Solar Panel.

    Since there's no such thing as an 800 Watt solar panel, how small are these batteries you expect to charge off one panel?

    I haven't got the monitor yet.. so it might only take 1 fuse (I was going off someone else's diagram for that.)

    So some modification may be necessary there, according to the needs of any battery monitor you do buy. You could save some money there and get a hydrometer to check SG on the batteries instead; it's an inexpensive way to start out, and far less confusing than getting a monitor programmed and functioning. On a small system it makes more sense (unless you plan to use AGM's of course).
    Morningstar 300

    You'll like that, I think. You just pick one of the AC out wires to be neutral, and ground it.
    Are you saying I need to ground the negative terminal of the batteries? Do you have a diagram that I could get a better idea of what your suggesting?

    It's easy; line from (-) goes to the ground just like any other ground connection. In some cases it may not be necessary, depending on how other things like charge controller or inverter or breaker boxes are wired: if there's already a minus to ground connection somewhere, you don't really need to add another.

    I still might be missing something.
    · Share on Twitter
  • spanel
    spanel Solar Expert Posts: 36 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Since there's no such thing as an 800 Watt solar panel, how small are these batteries you expect to charge off one panel

    Its mostly for a trickle of sorts... most of the heavy work will be charged from the genny.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas
    spanel wrote: »
    Its mostly for a trickle of sorts... most of the heavy work will be charged from the genny.

    And the battery charger has been left out for clarity. Good. ;)
    Be sure to get a 3-stage charger like the Iota: http://www.solar-electric.com/bach2.html
    It will help the batteries last longer.

    Incidentally, if your battery bank is four T105's or similar you'll want around 85 Watts or more just to produce a 1% 'trickle' charge. If you're planning on adding more panels in future, install the bigger wire now (for more current later) and possibly up-size the controller as well - just so you don't have to tear out half the system and start over later.
    · Share on Twitter
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    And depending on how the generator and charger want to be grounded, you may have to rethink that plan.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    · Share on Twitter
  • spanel
    spanel Solar Expert Posts: 36 ✭✭
    #9
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    I was thinking about plugging the charger in the 120v side on one of the circuits and charging it that way.

    The solar panel will be 130 watts.

    Chris

    updated:
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    This may sound like the bleeding obvious but ...

    All the major components to a system (should) come with instructions. Read them. Manufacturers usually put helpful information inside regarding things like wire and fuse sizes and any quirks about grounding or mounting (one charge controller I know of needs to be mounted vertically in order to dissipate the maximum heat). After reading all of these then you can start to put things together. It's nice to know about unexpected items before they become problems. You know; "batteries not included", "do not try this at home", "not responsible for anything at all" - that sort of thing. Or even that the 4 AWG wire from your big array isn't going to fit in to terminals on the charge controller which will only take 8 AWG.
    · Share on Twitter
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    We could make better recommendations knowing what panels, charge controller, generator, charger, and inverter models you are looking to use.

    Is this a 120 vac only for A.C.?

    Should you design breaker panel for possible future grid connection? Is it going to be permitted/inspected system?

    One of the biggest issues with 120 vac only inverters and generators is whether they have neutral groundable outputs.
    · Share on Twitter
  • spanel
    spanel Solar Expert Posts: 36 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    Kyocera 135 watt panel
    Sunsaver 10 charge controller
    4 trogan t105's
    tri metric 2025
    shurflo 2088
    iota engineering 30 amp charger w/IQ4
    Morningstar 300 SWI
    Powermax 50 amp automatic transfer switch
    Yamaha 2800i inverter


    All have been or will be purchased from the NA W&S.


    120volt only



    Updated Diagram...

    The few questions I have left are...

    Do I need to ground the generator to the 120v panel? or Seperately?
    Is inverter grounded correctly now on the 120v side?

    Thanks!!!

    Chris

    solar4.jpg
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    Do not ground the inverter separately. Run its ground to the AC panel like the others.
    Do not tie the AC out of the inverter to ground at the inverter. Again, run the wires to the AC panel. All grounds, AC neutral, and AC hot meet in that panel. That is the one place to have the neutral-ground bond and the one ground lead to the Earth grounding post.

    Elaboration: grounding is not a functioning part of the system, it is a safety measure. It is there in case something goes wrong with the normal current path and power instead goes to the casing of one of the devices. You want to then sink this power to ground through a controlled path, and not through your body, to Earth. If you have multiple ground points and/or confused wiring the current may not take the right route and the case of something may still be energized. "Touch it and find out" could result in cardiac arrest, or at least a nasty shock.
    · Share on Twitter
  • spanel
    spanel Solar Expert Posts: 36 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Do not ground the inverter separately. Run its ground to the AC panel like the others.
    Do not tie the AC out of the inverter to ground at the inverter. Again, run the wires to the AC panel. All grounds, AC neutral, and AC hot meet in that panel. That is the one place to have the neutral-ground bond and the one ground lead to the Earth grounding post.

    Just so I understand you... I have a inverter to a transfer switch to an AC panel. Are you saying i need to neutral ground in the AC panel (tie a wire from neutral to ground) Or are you saying do that at the transfer switch?

    Chris
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    The AC neutral-ground bond should be in the AC breaker panel. The transfer switch should not affect the ground wire at all, just switch the AC Hot and Neutral from either the gen or the inverter to power the breaker and neutral buses.
    · Share on Twitter
  • spanel
    spanel Solar Expert Posts: 36 ✭✭
    #16
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    Does this essentially neutral ground bond the generator too correct? I need to make sure thats ok?

    Chris
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas
    spanel wrote: »
    Does this essentially neutral ground bond the generator too correct? I need to make sure thats ok?

    Chris

    Yes. There may be a few generators that won't work with the neutral-ground bond; check the manual. Any "standard" gen should, as well as any pure sine inverter-type generator. Some of the inverter types use MSW and may have a problem with the bond.
    · Share on Twitter
  • spanel
    spanel Solar Expert Posts: 36 ✭✭
    #18
    Re: Wiring Diagram .. suggestions/ideas

    Thank You!

    Chris
    · Share on Twitter

Categories