Trace 4024 won't run table saw on new LiFePO batteries

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Desert Rat
Desert Rat Solar Expert Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I installed two new EG4-LL 24V 200Ah batteries a few months ago. When I try to run my 12.8A  table saw the inverter shuts off and displays an Overload fault. I also have a 15A miter saw which runs with no problems. I never had this issue with my previous bank of four 225 Ah GC2 LA  batteries. Thoughts?
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  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Is the table saw fitted with an induction motor? Most miter saws have a "universal" motor that are more inverter friendly. I'm guessing that the new batteries are dropping voltage when the table saw tries to start.
    Island cottage solar system with 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter, Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller 8 Trojan L16's. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge. My 30th year.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2022 #3
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    Curious!

    Doubt it's a voltage drop from the batteries themselves, as lithium don't really drop in voltage much...

    ...but perhaps new thinner cabling? longer distance wiring over thinner cabling? Did you move your temperature sensitive battery bank into warmed space but leave your power center outside?

    Could also be a loose connection, but since the miter saw's working...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Not sure if you are implying it worked before with lead acid batteries.

    LFP batteries have greater peak current sourcing, lower series impedance, compared to lead acid batteries.  Your problem may be that batteries are too good, allowing inverter not to have as much DC input voltage slump.

    This results in inverter not 'soft starting' AC surge load as much, causing inverter to trip its overcurrent protection.
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  • Wheelman55
    Wheelman55 Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭✭
    #5
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    Maybe borrow another table saw from a friend to see if you have the same issue?  Maybe try a different circuit breaker?  Who knows.,,

    I am able to run my Dewalt table saw off my LifePo4 batteries, however that’s not exactly apples to apples, due to us having different systems and different saws. 

    Best of luck with solving the mystery. 
    Off-Grid in Terlingua, TX
    5,000 watt array - 14 CS 370 watt modules. HZLA horizontal tracker. Schneider: XW6048NA+, Mini PDP, MPPT 80-600, SCP. 390ah LiFeP04 battery bank - 3 Discover AES 42-48-6650 48 volt 130ah LiFePO4 batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Perhaps Photowit is on the right track. What else has changed since replacing the FLA batteries? A 4024 inverter should easily handle the surge load of the table saw. Unless something happened with the table saw motor? Perhaps you can try the table saw on other system/s?

    Perhaps you had a high concurrent load while endeavoring to use the table saw? Perhaps the batteries were not fully charged?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #7
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    As always, check the DC voltage on the input to the AC inverter--Make sure it is not crashing to 21 VDC or lower during loads/starting surge.

    Another quick and dirty--You can use a longer (and/or light weight) extension cord to see if it surge current or something else with the inverter/battery system. The "extra resistance" of the extension cord does reduce starting surge. A trick that sometimes works well on a refrigerator on a smaller AC inverter to reduce starting surge.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Desert Rat
    Desert Rat Solar Expert Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    #8
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    More info:  I've found that the saw will start and run every time from a cold start. But if I shut it off and try to restart it within a few seconds the inverter will shut down and display the overload fault. 
    I just ran the saw for a few minutes without shutting it off, and ripped a few boards with no problem. Then when I went back in the house my Dell computer had shut down!
    I looked at the logged data on my two Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 controllers to check the minimum battery voltage after running the saw. It showed today's minimum battery voltage to be 27.6V. I had checked it earlier this morning and it was 26.8. So apparently the logged data had reset somehow. 
    I did talk with a tech at Signature Solar, and his thought was that the BMS was limiting the current from the batteries.
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  • Desert Rat
    Desert Rat Solar Expert Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    I forgot; I did try Bill's extension cord trick, but it didn't help.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    The Trace failure modes I have seen ( over the decades, as they are getting older ) have never been anything like you are experiencing.
    As previously suggested you should try another saw just to eliminate it.

    The BMS may be protecting the battery and this battery may not be the choice for you. See what they say and hopefully they will help you.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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