# Schneider Electric XW+6.8kw120/240 VS Schneider Electric Conext XW 4024 Inverter/Charger 120/2

offgridcabin2015
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**39**✭✭
I am researching between these too pure syn inverters.

I've done enough to know that that xw+ manual states i must have 440 ah MIN.

The 4024 version is stating min requirement is 100 ah.

i'm really wanting to make the jump to 48v. I can rewire my Eight 6v batts into one bank equally 48v (easy to do)

but concern tho is it's only going to give me 232 ah NOT the 440 AT it's stating i need.

Is this just recommended ? The reason i want the xw+ if for the surge of 12000 vs the 4024 surge of 8000.

My goal is to run all my wood working gear. 3hp electric tablesaw/ 220vac. and 2hp air compressor.

Now i could buy another 8 --232 ah 6v deep cycle batts but cannot add (paralle to bank) for can't mix new with old.

I could i guess buy em use the new batts only store my current batts , charge every 3 mths or so match the existing life age then mix the two?

Anyone ever think or do that . or is this nonsense?

or

Was thiking i can get a batt seletor and manually turn to bank 2 (new baNk) that way there not mixed. i think a great idea

and a great way around the issue.

so it's all about the 440ah min requirement / if it really doen't have to be , and i can really use my 232 ah bank. i can do this.

What do you peeps think.

Neil.

I've done enough to know that that xw+ manual states i must have 440 ah MIN.

The 4024 version is stating min requirement is 100 ah.

i'm really wanting to make the jump to 48v. I can rewire my Eight 6v batts into one bank equally 48v (easy to do)

but concern tho is it's only going to give me 232 ah NOT the 440 AT it's stating i need.

Is this just recommended ? The reason i want the xw+ if for the surge of 12000 vs the 4024 surge of 8000.

My goal is to run all my wood working gear. 3hp electric tablesaw/ 220vac. and 2hp air compressor.

Now i could buy another 8 --232 ah 6v deep cycle batts but cannot add (paralle to bank) for can't mix new with old.

I could i guess buy em use the new batts only store my current batts , charge every 3 mths or so match the existing life age then mix the two?

Anyone ever think or do that . or is this nonsense?

or

Was thiking i can get a batt seletor and manually turn to bank 2 (new baNk) that way there not mixed. i think a great idea

and a great way around the issue.

so it's all about the 440ah min requirement / if it really doen't have to be , and i can really use my 232 ah bank. i can do this.

What do you peeps think.

Neil.

## Comments

3,854✭✭✭✭✭✭Parallel connecting an older string with new can be done but it depends largely on the age, the older they are the less overall capacity they would have and may need different charging requirements than new. This may result in extended charging times due to the older ones loss of efficiency thus subjecting the newer ones to unnecessary stress.

The isolating switch idea still results in too small capacity, assuming you're offgrid and already have a system in operation you might want to consider building a second new system which would allow redundancy, should something fail on one at an inopportune time there would be backup power to allow repair without being under duress.

For self consumption reasons on my Schneider CS 2524 I switch between two inverters by programming a invert block period overnight when demand is low, using an automatic transfer switch, this came in handy already when rats chewed the insulation of the PV cables causing a short.

Second system 1890W 3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.

5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.

9,461✭✭✭✭✭|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||

|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

5,697✭✭✭✭✭I'd try to only run with good solar array support!

- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.

6,074✭✭✭✭✭http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/

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39✭✭I will go 48 volts . I agree DAve, this is the right way to go LONG TERM.

i will have to buy in pieces. So i'll buy the inverter 1st. Than i'lll buy 445 ah / 6v batts Rolls 499.00 a pop. i'll buy eight of em /

and then i'll only need a 48v to 12 step down (30 amps) to run my 12 gear..

HOpe you all remain safe.

Neil.

6,074✭✭✭✭✭Keep in the back of your mind no matter what you choose for a battery, you can always buy a set of golf batteries at Costco for about $80 or so each. Many can live on a 48v, or at least buy some time. Batteries are a C19 victim with long lead times.

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39✭✭I've been using

## GC2 Deep Cycle 6V Golf Cart Battery .

Going strong 5 years this past feb 2021. ( notE i only use about 50-70ah during daytime when sun fullyout. / and

batts are floating the entire time.

using light at night time , that's it . . I want my batts to last last LAST.

What a diff of pricing tho usa vs canada.

I assume your in the USA / ?

OUR price locally for 6v deep cyle is $189.99 (princess auto.com / canada)

link: https://www.princessauto.com/en/gc2-deep-cycle-6v-golf-cart-battery/product/PA0008620080

our local costco / canada doen't offer deep cycle only sli (car starting batts)/ garbage for us solar peeps.

6,074✭✭✭✭✭Jeez shop some more. I can ship canadian made batteries from here cheaper than that. Maybe canada does not have golf courses for golf batteries??? Nah ! https://www.costco.com/interstate-6-volt-golf-cart-battery.product.100476406.html

I live down below in the Sig.

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39✭✭So i did some digging seems we canadians are be ripped off for pricing. see link for canadian costco pricing , note , low 208ah too. / 1year warranty

link: https://a.sellpoint.net//w/spworld/p.html?prtnid=6409&pageid=100017095&div=sp_inline_product&title=Costco Battery Selector

they want 150.00 . and the reviews mostly on the linkyou have shared are very high on the neg side .

Based on that i think i will stay clear of them.

6,074✭✭✭✭✭The Costco model looks and weighs exactly as your model does. Pretty hard to say they were made differently. My guess, they are the same from Interstate.

I am saying a 48V bank made up of 6 v golf cart batteries has twice the capacity of a 24V bank of the same. Clear as mud?

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32,205adminIf you have 4 x "Golf Cart" batteries

4 x 6 volt @ 200 AH batteries in series/parallel(2s * 2p)= 12 volts @ 400 AH12 volts * 400 AH = 4,800 Watt*Hours of storage (typically use 50% max discharge for longer life)

4 x 6 volt @ 200 AH batteries in series

(4s * 1p)= 24 volts @ 200 AH24 volts * 200 AH = 4,800 Watt*Hours

If you have 8 x "GC" batteries

8 x 6 volt @ 200 AH batteries in series/parallel(2s * 4p)= 12 volts @ 800 AH24 volts * 400 AH = 9,600 WH of storage

8 x 6 volt @ 200 AH batteries in series/parallel

(4s * 2p)= 24 volts @ 400 AH24 volts * 400 AH = 9,600 WH of storage

8 * 6 volt @ 200 AH batteries in series

(4s * 1p)= 48 volts @ 200 AH48 volts * 200 AH = 9,600 WH of storage

So the total "energy storage" (Energy = Voltage * AmpHours of storage) is the same for 8 batteries, if wired as 4s * 2p or 8s * 1p...

Batteries in series add voltage. Batteries in parallel add current/Amp*Hours. Batteries in series/parallel add "both" (depending on exact configuration).

Just rearranging the deck chairs.

-Bill

6,074✭✭✭✭✭I edited above from the same to the "same model" as I think he was talking about going to 48V inverter.

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39✭✭I have a question for clarity to dave:

I am trying to understand your comment of: ( I am saying a 48V bank made up of 6 v golf cart batteries has twice the capacity of a 24V bank of the same. Clear as mud?)

when super moderators number shows the below:

8 x 6 volt @ 200 AH batteries in series/parallel (4s * 2p) = 24 volts @ 400 AH

24 volts * 400 AH = 9,600 WH of storage

8 * 6 volt @ 200 AH batteries in series (4s * 1p) = 48 volts @ 200 AH

48 volts * 200 AH = 9,600 WH of storage

So weather i have 24v bank / or 48 bank i still haVe only 9600WH.

what am i missing here, ? how does 48v have the double capicity?

My guess here is the amps used ?like if i watched tv for 1 hr on 24v it used 20 amps

vs

i watched tv for 1 hr on my 48v baNk it drew only 10 amps.

is this what you mean by . ihave double the storage on 48v? Does this make sense?

Thankyou. i'm trying to learn from you all.

Neil

32,205admin- 2s * 4p (8 batteries) for 12 volt @ 800 AH
- 4s * 2p (8 batteries) for 24 volt @ 400 AH
- 8s * 1p (8 batteries) for 48 volt @ 200 AH

Any of the above are 8 batteries * 6 volts per battery * 200 AH per battery = 9,600 Watt*Hours of stored energy- 4 * 6 volt * 200 AH = 4,800 WattHour battery bank capacity

And if you bought 4 more for an 8s * 1p (8 "GC" batteries total):- 8 * 6 volt * 200 AH = 9,600 WattHour battery bank (48 volts * 200 AH)

In the above case... If you "double the number of batteries", you have double the stored energy.- 800 AH (12 volt) * 10% rate of charge = 80 Amps of charging current
- 400 AH (24 volt) * 10% rate of charge = 40 Amps of charging current
- 200 AH (48 volt) * 10% rate of charge = 20 Amps of charging current

A typical solar charge controller is rated for XX Amps current at 12/24/48 volt battery bus... This means that a single charge controller can "manage" an array 2x larger @ 24 volts or 4x larger @48 volts vs an identical (energy storage) 12 volt bus system.32,205admin- 20 amps * 24 volts * 1 hour = 480 Watt*Hours

- 10 amps * 48 volts * 1 hour = 480 Watt*Hours

So the energy used (Watt*Hours) is the same in either setup...- 10 amps * 100 Vmp-array = 1,000 Watts
- 10 amps * 12 VDC battery = 120 Watts
- 10 amps * 24 VDC battery = 240 Watts
- 10 amps * 48 VDC battery = 480 Watts
- 10 amps * 120 VAC inverter = 1,200 Watts
- 10 amps * 240 VAC inverter = 2,400 Watts

I am trying to be a "little confusing here" to show that If we deal with Watts, then we can figure out the current at any working voltage:- 480 Watts / 100 Vmp array = 4.8 Amps in solar array current
- 480 Watts / 12 VDC battery = 40 Amps in 12 volt battery bus
- 480 Watts / 24 VDC battery = 20 Amps in 24 volt battery bus
- 480 Watts / 48 VDC battery = 10 amps in 48 volt battery bus
- 480 Watts / 120 VAC = 4 amps to 120 VAC load
- 480 Watts / 240 VAC = 2 amps to 240 VAC load

If you take your 8x GC batteries, you can array them in 12/24/48 volts (2s x 4p, 4s x 2p, 8s x 1p)--They all store the same amount of energy--They just deliver it at higher voltage/lower current (P=Voltage * Current).6,074✭✭✭✭✭Order times in Covid 19 can be 10 weeks for some of the major battery companies. I just did a 10 week lead time with the store here from Surrette. I can think of dozens of folks who were saved from power misery by the good folks at Costco, or similar large chains.

The XW 6848+ in the title here is no longer available by the way. It was replaced by XW pro. If you do find the XW+ it will have warranty if new. I would look at the Pro model as it may be less expensive and has a better warranty and serviceable farther into the future.

Good Post Bill !

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39✭✭i WILL have to email this information to myself. Electrial 101, Bill your so rite.

I have a ton of math to learn here. but i'm up for it.

and i love to tinker.

Bill ty for sharing about the product no longer avail. I sent email to both ALT -E and canadian energy for price quote

on the 6800 /48v 1XW pro model.

Then the only other part i'LL need is a step down from 48v to 12v/ 20or 30amps.

Neil

32,205adminThat was Dave A. that talked about the updated XW Pro inverter line... He is connected with the major solar/off grid power vendors. Me--I just read what is posted here (such as from Dave and others).

And here is a page on the "basic" electrical equations (and not so basic):

https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2020/10/electrical-engineering-formulas.html

Again, please feel free to ask your questions. I/we try to go through the math/references so you can follow the logic, and expand on your questions (i.e., larger or smaller loads, different voltages, etc.) and use the "math/tables" so see how everything relates/is affected.

-Bill

39✭✭So once i install the XW pro model 48v / 120/240. i need advice on running wire underground 150 feet away from cabin to garage .

my goal overall is to use my day time only to run my woodshop.

so not sure for the ac wire (assuming it's ac wire) that i'd be running underground that distance so i can power my tools.

this is the whole reason i'm upgrading to this power ful inverter.

I"m getting a few quotes on the unit as we speak.

Anyone if I can buy direct? or must i have to buy for a vendor? like canadian energy, (literally they are right across the street from my work)

Thankyou everyone. you'll all some knowledgeable and AMAZING.

73✭✭Has to be buried 2 feet without protection, 18" if in conduit, 12" if in conduit and covered by preserved wood planks (or concrete). Put caution ribbon in trench above wire while burying it! Home Depot sells the condensed Electrical Code with the funny cartoons, well worth the $15 or so.

You select the wire size by the load and desired voltage drop under load by looking it up in tables online, usually either 3% or 5% losses are typical target voltage drops.

For solar powered systems, wasted power is more significant so overall might work out cheaper to use heavier wire with lower losses than having to buy larger batteries, more panels.

Or if you can get a good deal, for larger loads like a big wood shop, use the armoured Teck cable which comes in larger sizes. As long as you use approved connectors and anti-ox paste, aluminum teck cable can be cheaper than copper.

Bit of a project digging a 150 foot trench by hand - but that's what young-uns are for!

Offgrid in cloudy PNW

MacGyver'ed museum collection of panels, castoff batteries and generators - ready for state of art system install ....6,074✭✭✭✭✭We have had ground squirrels go below 2 feet. Protecting the cable is really only if you never want to dig it up and do it again

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39✭✭Way to much digging my hand so why can't i install wire like on telephone poles. " overhead"?do i need special wire for that.?

i want 50amp at the end of my 150 foot run / 220vac and i also wants line for 110vac too.

thoughts?

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