Need help on wiring an inverter system into a panel

hunterstevehuntersteve Registered Users Posts: 4
hello group I am new to the forum and have a wiring question. Let me start by explaining what I have.

i have a hunt camp in northern Ontario currently running on a 9kv 220volt diesel generator. And I recently purchased a 120volt 4000k watt inverter with 4x6 volt industrial machine batteries. I am a mechanic and pretty familiar with using different voltages and setups. 

My gen is hooked up to a 220volt panel and currently running all day and I wanted to limit the hours of it running for noise and unnecessary fuel usage. 

My my intentions are to use the alternator thats on the generator to charge the batteries during cooking and shower time 3-4 hours a day and run on battery power the rest of the day to keep the fridge lights and water pump going.

My question is this. How do I hook up a 120volt system to my 220volt panel? I wanted to run both banks of my panel but Not using my 220volt appliances during battery time (water heater and stove) 


Comments

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome to the forum @huntersteve

    To begin with I'm sure you're referring to a 120/240V split system, that aside your proposed use of the generator alternator to charge a battery bank is not something that would be recommended, the alternator is designed to replenish the losses associated with startup, asking it to do more will result in overheating and premature failure.

    To come up with something that would work, the starting point would be load demands, then a way to satisfy the battery needs, if lead acid batteries are in the plan, using a generator, in any way,shape or form as a primary charging source  is inefficient due to the length of time needed to satisfy the charging criteria. Solar may be a better solution to consider, this will involve the purchase of supporting equipment such as an inverter charger with a split phase output to satisfy the needs, but these are merely words without knowing the loads.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What voltage is your water pump ?   

      A 120V inverter cannot be hooked to both legs of a 240V split phase panel like you have.  (well, you could hook it up, and you might be happy for a short while)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • hunterstevehuntersteve Registered Users Posts: 4
    It’s not going to be used as a primary charging source. The generator will be running during cooking and showering times anyways so I’m just trying to take advantage of the idle time that the gen doesn’t really need to be working. so about two hours cooking time and another two hours while six + guys shower so four hours a day. the generator needs to run anyways to keep up with the demand of the 220volt stove and 220volt water heater. And then the batteries will only be used when guys need to have the lights on flushing the toilet. During the day the guys will be hunting. Power off. So the batteries will hardly get drained down during the off time. And at night to keep lights on and radio. 

    So my intentions are not to completely drain my batteries and then wait for the generator to charger them. 
     
    The alternator on my gen set is a full size alternator 12volts at 40 amp 480 watt.  The engine on my gen set is an industrial Kubota Diesel engine that is used on many different applications like boats, machinery, tractors etc. that would have a decent amount of electrical load that the alternator is designed to handle. So there would be zero issue with overheating or premature failure.  
  • hunterstevehuntersteve Registered Users Posts: 4
    My water pump is currently set up at 220volt but I’m going to switch it to 120volt 
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
     
    The alternator on my gen set is a full size alternator 12volts at 40 amp 480 watt. 
    The engine on my gen set is an industrial Kubota Diesel engine

    My water pump is currently set up at 220volt but I’m going to switch it to 120volt 

    My moms old '70 toyota had a 35A alternator.
    My new 2019 subaru has a 140A alternator
      Full size can mean a lot of things.   A 40A alternator can only charge 400ah of batteries, without running the risk of undercharging them. 

    Switching your water pump to the lower voltage, will increase the amps it consumes at the lower voltage, for the same water capability, you consume the same watts,  roughly 1,000 w for a half hp pump.

     your 400ah of battery (which only contains 2,400 usable watt hours)  is going to run that 1000w pump for about 30 minutes before it gives out from stress.  it will recover in a while.

    Can you pump water up from the well, into above ground tank, and then use a small booster pump to shower and flush with ?





    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • hunterstevehuntersteve Registered Users Posts: 4
    I currently have a few thousand litre tanks for rain water collection and one main tank inside the cabin that the pump is hooked up to. I don’t intend on using the batteries to power the pump on a continuous basis just to flush toilet wash hands etc. For showering or long time use I would start gen. I’m just looking for a system that I would still have power while it’s off and save my generator during idle times. My main intention is to not have my gen running for 12 hours a day. I would start it when needed and the rest would be battery power. 
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