Rattlesnake Hills - Options?

softdown

Talk about a truly "In the weeds" discussion! 

Trying to keep my work outs highly varied I hiked some hills that I have not frequented in some time. Discovered not one, but two, annoyed rattlers about ten minutes apart. The hills are extremely rocky, rattlers are noted for liking rocky areas. Rabbits also seem to like rocky areas for the refuge offered. With prey comes their predators it would seem. Should I:
1) Avoid this area during the months of rattlesnake activity?
2) Go rattlesnake hunting. Cause dem's good eatin'.
3) Man up. A few rattlers shouldn't scare anyone off. After all, most victims survive. Do you really need all four limbs anyway?
4) Notify Ingsoc of a possible rattlesnake refuge that may be in need of various government actions? Speaking of which, week-ends are productive times to work on the social credit score. Thus-
: 

MrM1

I'd say notify any appropriate government agencies as soon as possible.  If the snake population is anywhere near the Alligator population here,  they have to be near extinction.   I mean,  2 springs ago I only count about 300 gators in a 1 hour boat ride (true story).

softdown

MrM1 said:

I'd say notify any appropriate government agencies as soon as possible.  If the snake population is anywhere near the Alligator population here,  they have to be near extinction.   I mean,  2 springs ago I only count about 300 gators in a 1 hour boat ride (true story).

Having considered the toxicity of the rattlesnake, our esteemed government has given at least one species special consideration as an "endangered species". A couple months ago a state park employee was telling me about the lady and her dog that got bit that day. I cheerfully responded that I had administered "last dance" to an aggressive rattler close to the parking area. He responded "Don't tell anybody, you could get in trouble."

True story. I figure that predators think alike and this type of bonding and protection is the result. Treating rattlesnake bites is only a few hundred thousands dollars around here. We need more protection and more protected space for such a valued species. 

Estragon

I'd shoot the damned things (if I had a gun), but then again I'm a prole not far from the middle of nowhere.

Nature is always trying to kill us, and it eventually wins 

BB.

We are probably going to have the same issues in California with Mountain Lions (1986 to 2014):

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Conservation/Mammals/Mountain-Lion/Attacks

Date	Type	Attack Location	County	Victim Sex	Victim Age
March 1986	Nonfatal	Caspers Wilderness Park	Orange	Female	5 yrs.
Oct. 1986	Nonfatal	Caspers Wilderness Park	Orange	Male	6 yrs.
March 1992	Nonfatal	Gaviota State Park	Santa Barbara	Male	9 yrs.
Sept. 1993	Nonfatal	Cuyamaca State Park	San Diego	Female	10 yrs.
Apr. 1994	Fatal	Auburn State Recreation Area	El Dorado	Female	40 yrs.
Aug. 1994	Nonfatal	Mendocino County (remote)	Mendocino	Male	50s
	Nonfatal			Female	50s
Dec. 1994	Fatal	Cuyamaca State Park	San Diego	Female	56 yrs.
Mar. 1995	Nonfatal	Mt. Lowe (San Gabriel Mtns.)	Los Angeles	Male	27 yrs.
Jan. 2004	Fatal	Whiting Ranch Regional Park	Orange	Male	35 yrs.
Jan. 2004	Nonfatal	Whiting Ranch Regional Park	Orange	Female	30 yrs.
June 2004	Nonfatal	Sequoia National Forest	Tulare	Female	28 yrs.
Jan. 2007	Nonfatal	Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park	Humboldt	Male	70 yrs.
Jul. 2012	Nonfatal	Confluence of Shady Creek and Yuba River	Nevada	Male	63 yrs.
Sept. 2014	Nonfatal	Cupertino	Santa Clara	Male	6 yrs.

Note: According to historical reports, four additional fatal incidents involving six victims occurred around the turn of the previous century. Furthermore, two additional incidents have been reported by the media as attacks. However, they do not fit the criteria of verifiable attacks on humans and were not confirmed. One incident involved a turkey hunter who was camouflaged and calling for turkeys when a mountain lion approached from behind. Immediately after the mountain lion confronted the hunter and realized that the hunter was not a turkey, the lion ran away. This is not judged to be an attack on a human. Every indication suggests that if the hunter had not been camouflaged and calling like a turkey, the mountain lion would have avoided him. The other incident on the Los Padres National Forest was described as a mountain lion attack on a boy near a stream. However, the alleged injuries were not verified by a physician, law enforcement officer or CDFW personnel.

More attacts since then (4 year old in San Diego Ca, one of the latest this year). A couple of cubs caught in coastal town 20 miles south of San Francisco. A park closed south of SF due to mountain lion activity.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/05/29/san-diego-attack-the-latest-in-a-long-string-of-dust-ups-between-californians-mountain-lions/

Prior to 1994 or so, only two people died around 1909--Actually they survived the attack but died from Rabies.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/22/killed-by-mountain-lions-details-of-california-attacks/

Snake Bite deaths:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_the_United_States

A fair number of "imported snakes" (cobras and such) in the list (at least they had permits and "were experts").

-Bill

Marc Kurth

 Timber Ratters are the most dangerous version around here and they are indeed Federally protected. Living on a lake, Cottonmouth's are out and about, along with copperheads.Snakes are generally not looking for a fight - they have survival instincts too. Broadly speaking, by far most snake bites are non-leathal - by the snakes own choice. Defensive hits are a more of a warning, as opposed to pumping a full load of venom.

If you live in woods, a small pistol loaded with "snake shot" is a simple solution - at least for the first few rounds. Snake shot is typically tiny #12 pellets like a miniature shotgun,  It is important to learn to ID snakes because the "good guys" effectively attack and kill the "bad guys." ALL snakes get a pass from me, unless they are venomous and get too close to the house.

softdown

BB. said:

We are probably going to have the same issues in California with Mountain Lions (1986 to 2014):

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Conservation/Mammals/Mountain-Lion/Attacks

Date	Type	Attack Location	County	Victim Sex	Victim Age
March 1986	Nonfatal	Caspers Wilderness Park	Orange	Female	5 yrs.
Oct. 1986	Nonfatal	Caspers Wilderness Park	Orange	Male	6 yrs.
March 1992	Nonfatal	Gaviota State Park	Santa Barbara	Male	9 yrs.
Sept. 1993	Nonfatal	Cuyamaca State Park	San Diego	Female	10 yrs.
Apr. 1994	Fatal	Auburn State Recreation Area	El Dorado	Female	40 yrs.
Aug. 1994	Nonfatal	Mendocino County (remote)	Mendocino	Male	50s
	Nonfatal			Female	50s
Dec. 1994	Fatal	Cuyamaca State Park	San Diego	Female	56 yrs.
Mar. 1995	Nonfatal	Mt. Lowe (San Gabriel Mtns.)	Los Angeles	Male	27 yrs.
Jan. 2004	Fatal	Whiting Ranch Regional Park	Orange	Male	35 yrs.
Jan. 2004	Nonfatal	Whiting Ranch Regional Park	Orange	Female	30 yrs.
June 2004	Nonfatal	Sequoia National Forest	Tulare	Female	28 yrs.
Jan. 2007	Nonfatal	Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park	Humboldt	Male	70 yrs.
Jul. 2012	Nonfatal	Confluence of Shady Creek and Yuba River	Nevada	Male	63 yrs.
Sept. 2014	Nonfatal	Cupertino	Santa Clara	Male	6 yrs.

Note: According to historical reports, four additional fatal incidents involving six victims occurred around the turn of the previous century. Furthermore, two additional incidents have been reported by the media as attacks. However, they do not fit the criteria of verifiable attacks on humans and were not confirmed. One incident involved a turkey hunter who was camouflaged and calling for turkeys when a mountain lion approached from behind. Immediately after the mountain lion confronted the hunter and realized that the hunter was not a turkey, the lion ran away. This is not judged to be an attack on a human. Every indication suggests that if the hunter had not been camouflaged and calling like a turkey, the mountain lion would have avoided him. The other incident on the Los Padres National Forest was described as a mountain lion attack on a boy near a stream. However, the alleged injuries were not verified by a physician, law enforcement officer or CDFW personnel.

More attacts since then (4 year old in San Diego Ca, one of the latest this year). A couple of cubs caught in coastal town 20 miles south of San Francisco. A park closed south of SF due to mountain lion activity.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/05/29/san-diego-attack-the-latest-in-a-long-string-of-dust-ups-between-californians-mountain-lions/

Prior to 1994 or so, only two people died around 1909--Actually they survived the attack but died from Rabies.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/22/killed-by-mountain-lions-details-of-california-attacks/

Snake Bite deaths:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_the_United_States

A fair number of "imported snakes" (cobras and such) in the list (at least they had permits and "were experts").

-Bill

I get concerned when I hear the rattling and can't see where it is coming from. Got more energetic when that happened this morning. As remote as I get I might be best off swallowing a bunch of aspirin and toughing it out. Getting medical help would take a l-o-n-g time and they only keep a single vial of anti-venom locally with plans of getting more flown in from Denver. Shoot - I have considered stocking my own anti-venom. Have encountered a l-o-t of rattlers in my days. Three dogs have been bit to date. All survived. 

A number of bites do not inject a full dose. That is why the vast majority survive. Then we have the guy who died after trying to kill the rattler. I tend to doubt his skill set. It isn't that hard. I was doing it at eight years of age if the snake was close to human habitation. 

I let both go today. Very little human locomotion in their locale. Government can howl at the moon all it wants, if a rattler is close to a house it's days might be countable if I run into it. Sorry about being so old school but I think humans and their pet dogs are more important than rattlers. Really. old. school. 

mcgivor

Interestingly the number of people killed in the U.S. by dogs is 6 to 10 times that snakes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

MrM1

I really don't like snakes (mean ones), gators or sharks... And odd live near /with all 3. Lol 

Estragon

As there are no deadly snakes in my neck of the woods (AFAIK), I leave them be.  If there were, I'd deal with them accordingly.

Estragon

mcgivor said:

Interestingly the number of people killed in the U.S. by dogs is 6 to 10 times that snakes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

I feel kind of sorry for the dogs.  We breed them to do what they do. Then they do it, and we blame the dog.

petertearai

The most dangerous things around here are Humans .

Dave Angelini

Our humans are pretty good up here in the mountains. Even the homeless that are mandated to live in each county are a bit more realistic.
Something about mountain weather in winter make folks a bit more conscious of 50 degree + temp changes in really short time periods. 

Mariposa (the Sierra in general) is a great place for someone with minimal education. There is plenty of work cutting firewood in winter and weed whacking in  Summer. Both can easily earn $20+ an hour tax free. Plenty of caretaker jobs for the retired also up here.

The homeless mostly want to be homeless and so they start filtering out before the first snows in November.

softdown

mcgivor said:

Interestingly the number of people killed in the U.S. by dogs is 6 to 10 times that snakes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

A lot of people have never encountered a poisonous snake. We all encounter thousands of dogs in our lives. Most dog bites are highly exaggerated anyway. I stuck my arm in the middle of a dog fight and got eight punctures. Frankly - it was nothing at all. Didn't even hurt a little. Bled for awhile though. I soaked it in synthetic seawater which does magic for my cuts and punctures. I'm a medical rebel who has not seen a doctor since about 2005ish. That was an auto accident - those can hurt you.  Went to the dentist after 15 years though - no cavities. 

I think people should take of themselves instead of depending on magic pills from their doctors and dentists. Being healthy will never come from popping petrochemicals and psychotropics. Guess my rebelliousness shows up...frequently. 

softdown

Cleaning insides of tires prior to mounting. Feel something soft and spongy and squish it. It was apparently a Black Widow spider. Geez. 

mcgivor

Estragon said:

mcgivor said:

Interestingly the number of people killed in the U.S. by dogs is 6 to 10 times that snakes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

I feel kind of sorry for the dogs.  We breed them to do what they do. Then they do it, and we blame the dog.

Yeah it is kind of sad that the dogs get a bad reputation, the ''owners" of the most offensive dogs are usually the most offense people, Nigeria takes it to the next level with Hyenas, they could bite someone's leg off if they were so inclined.

softdown

Doesn't help your tourism trade when the occasional visitor gets their head removed with a machete. But I'm pretty sure we can no longer acknowledge reality. Never know when the Inner Circle pops in after a bot notifies them a taboo word or thought has been posted somewhere. 

softdown

mcgivor said:

Estragon said:

mcgivor said:

Interestingly the number of people killed in the U.S. by dogs is 6 to 10 times that snakes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

I feel kind of sorry for the dogs.  We breed them to do what they do. Then they do it, and we blame the dog.

Yeah it is kind of sad that the dogs get a bad reputation, the ''owners" of the most offensive dogs are usually the most offense people, Nigeria takes it to the next level with Hyenas, they could bite someone's leg off if they were so inclined.

Looks like worlds worst pet from here: "But in reality Hyenas are the last thing that should come to your mind when it comes to keeping pets. Hyenas as by nature are wild animals which cannot be tamed or domesticated. as we all know wild animals are unpredictable and therefore it shouldn't be a surprise if your pet hyena tries to maul you to death. Being hardcore carnivores and scavengers the hyenas are equipped with a very powerful jaw that have short and robust teeth that can break bones and carcass of dead and rotting animals. They have a very good build and are also known for being very aggressive. There have been several incidents of hyena attacks which have been recorded in many parts of Africa. In the earlier times , in Mulanje, Malawi in 1962, there were a pair of man eating hyenas which were responsible for deaths of 27 people, they were shot later and weighed around 150–170 lbs. In Uganda there were several cases of deaths of people suffering from African sleeping sickness as they used to sleep outside health camps and the hyenas would kill them during the night time. But the most ugliest case was seen in the Mzimba district of Agoniland where spotted hyenas would wait outside the huts of people and would attack them when they opened their doors. Even when it comes to hygiene, hyenas do not stand up to the mark, as mentioned earlier these animals are scavengers so they tend to have a lot of disease causing pathogens and deadly bacteria in their saliva so one good bite from them can surely cause a very nasty infection. Even hyenas are known to spread rabies. The hyenas possess a large pouch of skin on their anal openings, these are responsible for making a white creamy secretion known as Hyena butter which the hyena use for territorial marking . This hyena butter is one of the stinkiest and smelliest substance which can be even detected by a human standing several meters away. So in the end i would like to say even though the hyenas are very important and majestic animals of the wild but they stand a chance of being tamed or domesticated and thus hyenas should not be kept as pets"

From Quora

Did have a friend in Texas with a full grown African lion for a pet. It. was. interesting. Charged me once but the chain held. Charles, the owner, said "That was close." Maybe I seen a blur. Maybe I didn't.