Liquid battery break through

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lafayette
lafayette Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
in New Battery Technologies #1
I would like to know what people think this battery and its potential in the market.

New residential liquid storage battery (not lithium-ion)
12 kwh storage
3 kw continuous wattage, no peak (this may be improved)
15 year warranty at 90% capacity 
No moving parts
Environmentally friendly
Physically safe
4' x 3' x 2' size
$6,500 including inverter (estimate)

New battery coming out of a major US University. 

I would like to know how you think this new battery will do against Tesla Powerwall, LG Chem, Sonnan and all lithium-ion batteries in general.

Your help will be appreciated in the development of this battery.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    I'd look into it, Like to see  what additional add on assuming battery only units cost. 

    And if the warranty is good for cycling use.  The Tesla is but somewhat conditional now, wasn't for a long time.

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    More details would be helpful, like what chemistry is used, charging requirements, environmental limitations, etcetera. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Snake oiled powered until we get some more detail?  Tony
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Vaporware, AFIK.

    3Kw, no peak ?  How's the inverter going to start a well pump ?   My base load is about 250w for a large ranch, but to run pumps, I have a 6WK inverter.

    What's the recharge efficiency  ?

    Did you study up on the failed Salt Water Battery ?  It too had limited output power.

    Totally unbelievable till there is some actual documentation, not sales pitch.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • lafayette
    lafayette Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #6
    This battery is not for every situation.  We have made a major break through, combining the best of redox and lithium-ion batteries. This is the first battery to do so.  Small, inexpensive,  long cycling, environmentally neutral and physically safe. It is still in development but we hope to get it to market soon. We are at present working on a prototype cell.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    hw tolerant is it to cold?
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    lafayette said:
    This battery is not for every situation.  We have made a major break through, combining the best of redox and lithium-ion batteries. This is the first battery to do so.  Small, inexpensive,  long cycling, environmentally neutral and physically safe. 
    Sounds like Aquion!  I certainly hope you have better luck than them.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Well - we were overdue for another battery breakthrough. Wish them well of course. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • lafayette
    lafayette Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #10
    Thank all of you for your comments.  No we are not going to be another Aquion.  The battery is a break through, but based on well established chemistry with some twists.  We also have a new architecture which allows for no moving parts. Temperature has not been an issue in preliminary testing, but more will be done.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    This is not a breakthrough. this is a lab project.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    How can one offer a 15 year warrantee in a product that doesn’t exist?  (Not to mention other specs/claims?)

    Is this trolling?

    tony
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,696 admin
    #13
    I don't know... Could be very excited about a development he is part of--But limited in what he can say at this time.

    However, a prototype cell is a long way from volume production and a multiple units in the field.

    There has been talk/work done on Redox batteries supported with Li Ion to improve overall performance... Can't tell from what is posted here what is exactly is this project.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #14
    What do we, educated consumers and engineers want to know ?

    Chemistry.  Just roughly, none of the magic dust.
    Power Density and how easily can it scale
    Volume & Weight
    Secondary containment requirements
    Upper and lower thermal limits
    Safe operating voltage ranges - will my generic inverter be able to use the power.
    And it must work with existing gear/setups.  No point in buying a $40 battery if it needs the special $50K charger.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    · Share on Twitter

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