Rotten cell service out in the sticks?

softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭✭
I suffered for years. Was leary of signal boosters because so many reviewers said "It didn't work". Finally bit the bullet and bought a good one. These costs $300 to $400 depending on if it is "refurbished" by manufacturer or new. I suspect the refurbished ones may be units that failed because of bad installations. Takes a couple hours to install and a drill with close to a 1/2" bit. You should peruse the simple directions first. That takes a couple minutes. You get 60' of coaxial cable, some users could probably use more than that if they had it readily available. 

Went from 1 bar - if lucky. Now have 4-5 bars and feeling, well, ecstatic. The kit says it works with all carriers. Important because Verizon and AT&T use different technologies. 

weBoost Home 4G 470101 Cell Phone Signal Booster for Home and Office - Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint - Enhance Your Cell Phone Signal up to 32x


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RHMFQSA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭✭
    Do you have a Yagi directional antenna? Many of the boosters come with an omnidirectional antenna. The Yagi's need to be aimed at the cell tower you're trying to connect with.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,996 ✭✭✭✭
    softdown said:
    "...Went from 1 bar - if lucky. Now have 4-5 bars..."
    My understanding is you better go to 4-5 bars because that is measuring the connection with the relay/booster.

    I've needed to install  one for years... not sure I'm not happier without...lol
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • WaterWheelWaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭✭
    I use a cell booster with the antenna about 25' up in the air.       I went from barely 1 bar to 2-3 bars but when the wind is really blowing the cell signal drops.

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭✭
    Do you have a Yagi directional antenna? Many of the boosters come with an omnidirectional antenna. The Yagi's need to be aimed at the cell tower you're trying to connect with.
    It is directional. I believe it is called a Yagi.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭✭
    Forget the number of “bars” on the phone.  Go to your phone settings (and the net) and find out your real signal strength in -dbm. A signal of -50 is great, -100dbm is terrible and above -110dbm is negligible.  I use a direct connect Wilson amplifier tied to a directional Yagi pointed at the cell site ~25 kms away.  No outside antenna and I have no service, the Yagi alone gives me ~-90dbm to -110 dbm, pretty sketch sometimes.  Add in the Wilson and the signal goes to consistently strong - 70dbm.  This is on a HSPA cell system.

    All that said, I beleive and could stand to be corrected, that newest LTE systems measure dbm differently and indeed use a different frequency range, necessitating different hardware.  I have used Wilson products for years, and have been nothing but satisfied.

    Tony
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,518 admin
    You might also try your Cell Company and see if they have repeaters... My in-laws are in a cell phone dark zone (coastal hills). Got a repeater from T-Mobile (two wireless units, one upstairs in good signal, repeater downstairs). At least from T-Mobile, their basic repeater is free as long as you have an account (only works with T-Mobile, does not work, for example, with my Verizon phone).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    You might also try your Cell Company and see if they have repeaters... My in-laws are in a cell phone dark zone (coastal hills). Got a repeater from T-Mobile (two wireless units, one upstairs in good signal, repeater downstairs). At least from T-Mobile, their basic repeater is free as long as you have an account (only works with T-Mobile, does not work, for example, with my Verizon phone).

    -Bill
    Bit late to the party? My cell company offers no such thing - tried that long ago. 

    Some of you folks are making things too complicated - 
    Each phone has a different menu under settings. I tried to find dB with no luck - not that I needed help with knowing my signal was abysmal. 
    4-5 bars = good service.

    T-Mobile uses AT&T technology. So no luck with Verizon.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,518 admin
    You can also find cell phone apps that will do a better job of showing second to second (or so) graph of dBm... (in Android, the dBm is under settings (pull down/gear)/about phone/sim card status (Android 9, earlier versions were under about phone or about phone/network or similar).

    Just to try, I loaded for Android "phone signal information" from "IPocket Software"... It has a nice graph that updates every 1-2 seconds with 30-60 minutes of history (defaults).

    I have no other information, and have installed the application once I tried it (I try to reduce the chances of spam/infor-grabbing).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭✭
    Wilson’s very helpful web site will explain how to get a dbm signal check on nearly any device.  Pretty nice to be able to tweet your antenna direction point.  1 or 2 dbm makes a big difference, since the scale is logarithmic.  T
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,518 admin
    Usually for RF energy (and other stuff like light, audio, etc.), 1-3 dBm difference (3 dBm is 1/2 or 2x power) is a "small difference". And >=10 dBm is a "night/day" difference.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • HorseflyHorsefly Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭✭✭
    We put in a cell booster at our cabin last summer. The results were mixed: Those of us on AT&T saw almost no improvement, while those on Verizon saw a marked improvement.

    Probably the most confusing thing when we first got it, and it has been hinted at earlier in the thread: On my AT&T phone, after hooking up the booster I saw a consistent 5 bar signal. I thought "Wow! This is great!".   After a few minutes I realized that what my phone was showing as 5 bars was just the signal from the booster to my phone, and in fact I had no way to check the signal of the tower to the booster.

    We did a permanent install of the booster, but I think it mostly helps the verizon folks, and doesn't do much for me, even though I see a 5 bar signal!
    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 4 x Vmax XTR12-155 12V, 155AH batteries in a 2x2 24V 310AH bank.
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    I have this little antenna Rigged up temporarily  , I had 1 bar 2 some times . 
     It uses 3 watts of power . 
     Now I get perfect service like at home . 
     I think this unit cost 90 bucks .
     I just screwed it to the tighter all connections and it worked 
     on the peak or the house it could only get better . 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 887 ✭✭✭✭
    Wellbuilt...what little antenna?  Inquiring minds want to know.  Got a link?
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭✭
    Horsefly said:
    We put in a cell booster at our cabin last summer. The results were mixed: Those of us on AT&T saw almost no improvement, while those on Verizon saw a marked improvement.

    Probably the most confusing thing when we first got it, and it has been hinted at earlier in the thread: On my AT&T phone, after hooking up the booster I saw a consistent 5 bar signal. I thought "Wow! This is great!".   After a few minutes I realized that what my phone was showing as 5 bars was just the signal from the booster to my phone, and in fact I had no way to check the signal of the tower to the booster.

    We did a permanent install of the booster, but I think it mostly helps the verizon folks, and doesn't do much for me, even though I see a 5 bar signal!


    Hi there Horsefly. Been a while...

    Does your booster have adjustable frequency dials?  The Wilson I'm using has 4 dials and depending on your carrier you need to optimize in the carrier's frequency. I'm not sure what happens when you dial up all frequencies as Verizon doesn't work at all in our area so those settings are turned down/off.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27 #16
    In some locations I do experience connectivity issues with certain providers, to overcome this I use a phone with 2 SIM cards from different companies, usually one will work, not something that may be available in contract restricted locations, but the phones do exist.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Horsefly - have you looked into the tower location(s) and frequencies in use for providers in your area?  Maybe they're on different towers, or if in the same tower, maybe aimed differently?  Does one preferentially use 1900mhz (which doesn't travel as well as 800mhz)?

    Assuming you have a yagi antenna, knowing details of local towers can help optimize aiming of your end.

    AFAIK, the bars on your phone would show received signal strength from tower to phone.  The booster just amplifies the tower signal.  If there's no tower signal to boost, you get few/no bars.  I wonder if the signal is actually too strong or the inside antenna is interfering with the outside one, which could cause the tower side to drop the connection?  As LH2 notes, If the booster has dials or dip switches to attenuate, adjustment may help.  If there's any chance inside/outside signals might interfere, moving or reorienting the inside antenna may help.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • HorseflyHorsefly Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭✭✭
    Horsefly said:
    We put in a cell booster at our cabin last summer. The results were mixed: Those of us on AT&T saw almost no improvement, while those on Verizon saw a marked improvement.

    Probably the most confusing thing when we first got it, and it has been hinted at earlier in the thread: On my AT&T phone, after hooking up the booster I saw a consistent 5 bar signal. I thought "Wow! This is great!".   After a few minutes I realized that what my phone was showing as 5 bars was just the signal from the booster to my phone, and in fact I had no way to check the signal of the tower to the booster.

    We did a permanent install of the booster, but I think it mostly helps the verizon folks, and doesn't do much for me, even though I see a 5 bar signal!


    Hi there Horsefly. Been a while...

    Does your booster have adjustable frequency dials?  The Wilson I'm using has 4 dials and depending on your carrier you need to optimize in the carrier's frequency. I'm not sure what happens when you dial up all frequencies as Verizon doesn't work at all in our area so those settings are turned down/off.

    Estragon said:
    @Horsefly - have you looked into the tower location(s) and frequencies in use for providers in your area?  Maybe they're on different towers, or if in the same tower, maybe aimed differently?  Does one preferentially use 1900mhz (which doesn't travel as well as 800mhz)?

    Assuming you have a yagi antenna, knowing details of local towers can help optimize aiming of your end.

    AFAIK, the bars on your phone would show received signal strength from tower to phone.  The booster just amplifies the tower signal.  If there's no tower signal to boost, you get few/no bars.  I wonder if the signal is actually too strong or the inside antenna is interfering with the outside one, which could cause the tower side to drop the connection?  As LH2 notes, If the booster has dials or dip switches to attenuate, adjustment may help.  If there's any chance inside/outside signals might interfere, moving or reorienting the inside antenna may help.

    The booster we finally settled on (we actually bought and tried two, and returned the one that didn't seem to help at all) is SureCall Fusion4Home. It cost us $470 on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AWGY5FM (I see it is now $500)

    I should first explain what we had before the booster. The Verizon signal was insufficient for any data, but could - just barely - support voice calls. On AT&T we actually had a better signal, and could do data at something less than LTE rates. 

    I spent probably 10 hours looking up everything I could about the tower locations for both Verizon and AT&T anywhere near our cabin. Being on a high plateau will hills and mountains around us limited what we could do.  I determined that the two separate towers in the same general direction from our cabin probably had the best signal. The unit does have a Yagi, so we were able to mount it on the peak of the roof gable under the eaves, pointing in that direction (kind of towards Telluride from our cabin). 

    Yes, the unit has five gain adjustment dials for the various bands.I can't find my notes now, but I think there was one for voice channels, one for 3G GSM, one for 3G on CDMA, one for 4G/LTE GSM, and one for 4G/LTE on CDMA. The unit had some indicator lights on each, and would start out blinking, apparently indicating that it was searching for a signal and attempting to optimize the gain level. If it found a signal and was able to optimize, it would go to solid green. If it couldn't find a strong enough signal, it would go to yellow. If the indoor antenna was interfering with the outdoor antenna, the LEDs would go sold red.

    I did confirm via on-line searches and via email with SureCall that if the unit picks up a very weak signal it will amplify it and the noise around it to generate a deceptive 5-bar signal inside the cabin, but that signal still has a very small representation of the real tower cell signal.

    It certainly is interesting to me that the Verizon signal inside the cabin went from unusable to what sounds like 4G, and the AT&T signal remained at the weaker but usable level, bouncing between 2G and 3G.

    There are meters that you can rent for this purpose. The meter would show the strength in various bands, so you could see where there was 4G LTE vs GPRS or whatever. I could then see what small changes in the pointing angle of the Yagi would do. In the end I decided not to bother, since everyone now has at least a somewhat usable signal. My brother-in-law is the only one that actually tries to work while at the cabin, so having his Verizon connection improving so much really checked the box for what we needed.


    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 4 x Vmax XTR12-155 12V, 155AH batteries in a 2x2 24V 310AH bank.
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28 #19
    I suspect the legitimate boosters all work on the same principal. Antennae grabs a signal and a booster pumps up the signal. The price should be an indicator of quality but electronics are often hard to judge unless one has super technical equipment.  I only looked at a few but 4 stars seems to be the dominant rating. A lot of people experience satisfaction while a number do not. 

    I tried a Wilson for my car and showed 5 bars for a second - then no difference at all for phone calls and bars. Had AT&T at the time. 

    I consider a chance that AT&T may somehow "block" the effect of boosters because they may rob some bandwidth from others in the area. 

    FWIW - I took a chance on a $260 unit in an "open box". It arrived in pristine condition in a perfect box. I think Amazon likes me because I used to review a lot of books there. Amazon started as a bookseller.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭✭
    Horsefly said:
    Horsefly said:
    We put in a cell booster at our cabin last summer. The results were mixed: Those of us on AT&T saw almost no improvement, while those on Verizon saw a marked improvement.

    Probably the most confusing thing when we first got it, and it has been hinted at earlier in the thread: On my AT&T phone, after hooking up the booster I saw a consistent 5 bar signal. I thought "Wow! This is great!".   After a few minutes I realized that what my phone was showing as 5 bars was just the signal from the booster to my phone, and in fact I had no way to check the signal of the tower to the booster.

    We did a permanent install of the booster, but I think it mostly helps the verizon folks, and doesn't do much for me, even though I see a 5 bar signal!


    Hi there Horsefly. Been a while...

    Does your booster have adjustable frequency dials?  The Wilson I'm using has 4 dials and depending on your carrier you need to optimize in the carrier's frequency. I'm not sure what happens when you dial up all frequencies as Verizon doesn't work at all in our area so those settings are turned down/off.

    Estragon said:
    @Horsefly - have you looked into the tower location(s) and frequencies in use for providers in your area?  Maybe they're on different towers, or if in the same tower, maybe aimed differently?  Does one preferentially use 1900mhz (which doesn't travel as well as 800mhz)?

    Assuming you have a yagi antenna, knowing details of local towers can help optimize aiming of your end.

    AFAIK, the bars on your phone would show received signal strength from tower to phone.  The booster just amplifies the tower signal.  If there's no tower signal to boost, you get few/no bars.  I wonder if the signal is actually too strong or the inside antenna is interfering with the outside one, which could cause the tower side to drop the connection?  As LH2 notes, If the booster has dials or dip switches to attenuate, adjustment may help.  If there's any chance inside/outside signals might interfere, moving or reorienting the inside antenna may help.

    The booster we finally settled on (we actually bought and tried two, and returned the one that didn't seem to help at all) is SureCall Fusion4Home. It cost us $470 on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AWGY5FM (I see it is now $500)

    I should first explain what we had before the booster. The Verizon signal was insufficient for any data, but could - just barely - support voice calls. On AT&T we actually had a better signal, and could do data at something less than LTE rates. 

    I spent probably 10 hours looking up everything I could about the tower locations for both Verizon and AT&T anywhere near our cabin. Being on a high plateau will hills and mountains around us limited what we could do.  I determined that the two separate towers in the same general direction from our cabin probably had the best signal. The unit does have a Yagi, so we were able to mount it on the peak of the roof gable under the eaves, pointing in that direction (kind of towards Telluride from our cabin). 

    Yes, the unit has five gain adjustment dials for the various bands.I can't find my notes now, but I think there was one for voice channels, one for 3G GSM, one for 3G on CDMA, one for 4G/LTE GSM, and one for 4G/LTE on CDMA. The unit had some indicator lights on each, and would start out blinking, apparently indicating that it was searching for a signal and attempting to optimize the gain level. If it found a signal and was able to optimize, it would go to solid green. If it couldn't find a strong enough signal, it would go to yellow. If the indoor antenna was interfering with the outdoor antenna, the LEDs would go sold red.

    I did confirm via on-line searches and via email with SureCall that if the unit picks up a very weak signal it will amplify it and the noise around it to generate a deceptive 5-bar signal inside the cabin, but that signal still has a very small representation of the real tower cell signal.

    It certainly is interesting to me that the Verizon signal inside the cabin went from unusable to what sounds like 4G, and the AT&T signal remained at the weaker but usable level, bouncing between 2G and 3G.

    There are meters that you can rent for this purpose. The meter would show the strength in various bands, so you could see where there was 4G LTE vs GPRS or whatever. I could then see what small changes in the pointing angle of the Yagi would do. In the end I decided not to bother, since everyone now has at least a somewhat usable signal. My brother-in-law is the only one that actually tries to work while at the cabin, so having his Verizon connection improving so much really checked the box for what we needed.


    I'll make this offer: I can bring my weBoost electronics, minus the coaxial cable, to try in exchange for consulting on preparing for a possible solar flare/EMP. This is an 8000' steel barn. Started at 2400' then I added wings. But there is an ~ 6' 6" x 6' opening for the door between the sunroom and bedroom. Not covered in steel.

    Shoot - I don't know how well, if at all, the steel "protects" me from a possible EMP pulse. 

    Sometimes I worry about such events. Mostly I don't. But tensions with Iran look worrisome and Russia is their neighbor. 

    If my electronics get fried, now I can lament - If that Horsefly EE guy wouldda told me what to do. Etc. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 394 ✭✭✭

    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    My unit was only 99 bucks but this look very much like it . 
     It did not get  great reviews on  Amazon but my buddy thru the antenna on his roof and dropped the receiver in his 
     attic and plugged it into a light bulb socket  and he got 4/5 bars . 
     I bought mine last year and at first it did not work . 
     There where no  directions at all  , I made the mistake of not really tightening the cable   Connections down  
     I was going to send it back but after I look at it again I noticed  it had strange connectors so I tighten them with  pliers and the damn thing worked perfectly . 
     We use at&t and Verizon . 
      I went from getting one bar so I can get a text out to streaming movies . 
     And it burns very little power . 
    Im sure it would work better if I pointed it at a tower . 
     My buddy just has his unit pointing strait up in the air .
     I would beat the bad reviews are from people not snugging down the cables  John 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Turning a steel building into a Faraday shield has to be done at the time of construction.  All the panels and frame have to be bonded together along the length of the seam, usually with 2" mesh braid.   Any gaps, and your EMP gets funneled in via the slot antenna the gap presents.   Much of the EMP could be shunted away, but which frequencies on random panels, is pretty much unknown.
    An un-shielded door or window, blows the whole thing out.

    Put the gear you want to keep safe, into EMI bags inside a meal drum and tape the lid closed with metal tape with conductive adhesive.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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