Anti-Oxidant Paste

ligwydligwyd Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
edited October 2018 in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Do you guys use any type of anti-oxidant paste between the battery terminals and the battery cable lugs?
I've applied No-Ox-ID and I'm pretty sure I can notice a significant rise in current required to charge the batteries.
Might remove interconnect cables and wipe of with a clean shop rag and re-install and re-torque. I figure a very, very thin film left behind after wiping may aid in preventing any corrosion from sneaking in and also hopefully will not cause any considerable resistance. Maybe I had too much in there?
Any thoughts from anyone on this?
Appreciate your feedback :)

Comments

  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    This has not been my experience with No-OX
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unlikely the No-Ox will affect the current required to charge the batteries, the batteries themselves will determine that, perhaps they were a little further discharged than normal, or the panels were cooler. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,706 admin
    If you have lower resistance in the circuit (better electrical connections, heavier/shorter cables, etc.), you will have higher charging current for a given state of charge.

    Use a DMM (digital multimeter) set to 2 volts (or 200 mV) full scale, and measure the voltage drop across each connection/length of wire/etc. while the system is under high charging (or discharging) current.

    If you find a place with higher than "typical" voltage drop, you need to figure out what the problem may be. Note, poor connections can also get hot (power = current^2 * resistance).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭✭
    Another poster at another board advised me that such pastes are not conductive. So now I am in a state of uncertainty.

    A challenge with the net is the plethora of conflicting opinions. 

    There are pastes with a high concentration of solids. They are expensive.

    Having troubles with a couple outdoor battery connections here lately. BB, whom I trust quite a bit, advised me to cover the connections with silicone. Probably should have done have done that but some silicones are almost impossible to properly remove.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018 #6
    Pretty sure BB is referring to silicone grease, not silicone sealant/adhesive caulking.

    I copied this off an ad for NO-OX-ID A Special.   
    • Simply the Best ! One 2 oz container as pictured per order.
    • Conductive Grease and Electrical Contact Lubricant.
    • Works with ALL Metals with all Electrical Currents

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • ligwydligwyd Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    I'll do some experimenting/ testing today and post what I find. The two variables at hand are different age of batteries and the introduction if the No-Ox-ID. Leaning towards older and newer batteries being the cause, however all batteries are in standby and only being charged every 3 mths or if voltage drops below 20% DOD. I equalize every time I charge for minimum of 1 hour (pre-set).
    "The first 16 batteries  were manufactured in Q3 2015 and 8 later purchased batteries in Q1 2016"
    I’ve got two separate systems each with 12 batteries.

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭✭✭
    softdown said:
    Another poster at another board advised me that such pastes are not conductive. So now I am in a state of uncertainty.

    A challenge with the net is the plethora of conflicting opinions. 

    There are pastes with a high concentration of solids. They are expensive.

    Having troubles with a couple outdoor battery connections here lately. BB, whom I trust quite a bit, advised me to cover the connections with silicone. Probably should have done have done that but some silicones are almost impossible to properly remove.
    The use of such compounds is common in the electrical field, T&B butt splices are factory supplied with a healthy wad of paste within, for use with both aluminum or copper, it's primary purpose is as an antioxidant, if it were to reduce conductivity it wouldn't be used, logically thinking 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,706 admin
    You do have to be very careful about what you use....

    I use silicone grease for bulb sockets (turn signals for old cars, etc.). I try to keep it away from dinner and plastics (it seems to get into rubber and plastics, causing them to swell or turn brittle).

    Also keep all silicone grease and spray away from switch contacts. Silicones turn to glass from the heart of an arc. In old telephone switch rooms, silicone grease and spray was a big no (bad history there).

    I use battery terminal spray or other coming grease.

    Somebody here really liked Lubriplate grease for battery terminals.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • jonrjonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018 #10
    I believe that if there is enough pressure to make a good electrical contact, there is also enough pressure to displace the grease.   But I suppose there could be a case where a connection traps some grease and prevents some amount of direct metal-metal contact.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I use copper loaded grease in my crimps, keeps the end sealed. Silver loaded grease is better, but expensive.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:

    I use copper loaded grease in my crimps, keeps the end sealed. Silver loaded grease is better, but expensive.

    Know a convenient mail order source? Probably just need product name. I need to do something.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • jonrjonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭✭
    See below for details on:

    "Our records showed a much higher incidence of corrosion failure using conductive grease. Corrosion failure rate dropped significantly, almost to zero, when we switched to pure dielectric grease."

    https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I get the grease from McMasterCarr. The silver loaded stuff is good for the 500A terminal blocks !
    https://www.mcmaster.com/conductive-grease
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:

    I get the grease from McMasterCarr. The silver loaded stuff is good for the 500A terminal blocks !
    https://www.mcmaster.com/conductive-grease

    Yike$!
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jonr said:

    See below for details on:

    "Our records showed a much higher incidence of corrosion failure using conductive grease. Corrosion failure rate dropped significantly, almost to zero, when we switched to pure dielectric grease."

    https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

    Of course you have to pay attention to use the proper grease, in the proper application. That's why you have to read the label and know what you are doing. conductive grease on spark plugs - idiots.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:

    jonr said:

    See below for details on:

    "Our records showed a much higher incidence of corrosion failure using conductive grease. Corrosion failure rate dropped significantly, almost to zero, when we switched to pure dielectric grease."

    https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

    Of course you have to pay attention to use the proper grease, in the proper application. That's why you have to read the label and know what you are doing. conductive grease on spark plugs - idiots.
    Because everyone should be an expert on electrical pastes? I'd estimate that ~95% don't know enough to tighten a loose connection. Maybe I'm defensive over exercising some idiocy on outdoor connections. Thought I might be OK due to desert conditions and maintaining it - or something.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,706 admin
    edited October 2018 #18
    Typically I use anti-seize compound on the spark plug threads (it is conductive--don't get on body/tip of spark plug--nominally required on aluminum cylinder heads--not usually needed for cast iron heads or heads with steel threaded inserts) and silicone grease in the spark plug boot/hi tension connections (as I understand--None of my cars are near new enough/expensive enough to require boot grease).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭✭
    If you have clean contact areas on battery terminals, and cable lugs, conductive compounds should have no effect at all on the conductivity between the terminal and the cable lugs. IMO, if these compounds DO make a difference in conductivity, then there is a serious issue with terminals/lugs.

    The test of the effectiveness of these compounds should be relatively easy to run, with the DMM. Just measure the voltage drop between the lug and a given battery terminal, at a CONSTANT battery current.

    Personally, we always use Petroleum Jelly on battery terminals and lug surfaces. Lasts years, works great, not expensive.

    All IMO, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • ligwydligwyd Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    edited October 2018 #20
    So, my apologies for getting people worried (as I was too). My two variables were different age/state of battery strings being charged and me having adjusted the mV/ degree Celsius setting of the BTS on my System Control Panel!
    The first string of batteries I charged with the setting at zero and then the next I charged with it properly set at -108mV/degree Celsius so because it was colder in the sea-can the charge settings were automatically compensating and that is why I noticed an increase in current charging the batteries.
    To confirm I went back to the first string I had charged and re-charged and floated with the NO-OX-ID now in place and yep you guessed it..... exact same result as the fist time. So no wiping off the antioxidant paste for me. Leave it in and let it maintain the electrical connection as per design.
    Biggest lesson I have learned (among many) is before signing for FLA's "received in good order", know your battery specs, take your volt meter and hydrovolt (battery acid tester) with you and confirm you are buying good product before picking up or having delivered. Also ensure water levels are where they should be and open each cell and shine a flash light to see if there is any sulfation (black spots) on the lead plate material in the battery. Might be a $3000 lesson. Live and learn
    Cheers all :)
    John
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