Brass Fittings for use with Distilled Water

Ako
Ako Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭
Im looking for a way to cut down the time required when topping up my batteries than having to use a funnel , pour water in then remove it , shine a touch in to check level and replete the process a couple of times for each cell .

Today i bought a small water gun with hand trigger so i can control the water flow with one hand while holding a torch in the other to watch the fluid level so making it a single action process .

I am planning using a large plastic container to store about 10 ltrs of distilled water to gravity feed down a plastic tube to the gun . My questions are , can i safely use Brass fittings for the outlet from the tank and the inlet to the plastic gun or would they be unsuitable and possibly contaminate the distilled water and might there be a problem with storing distilled water this way for several months as i normally buy it in smaller quantities and use it within a week or two direct from the container it comes in .
2240 Watt Array  4 x 460 Watt Mono Panels + 2 x 200 Watt Panels
Victron Smart 150-70 MPPT Charge Controller
24 volt Battery Bank 4 x 6v 400 Amp/Hr Trojan L16 AGM
LiFePO4 Lithium 100 Amp/Hr Battery for Backup
Victron 1600w Multiplus Compact Inverter/Charger
DC to DC Charger ( Non Isolated )

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,606 admin
    From Trojan:

    http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TrojanBattery_UsersGuide.pdf

    Water Impurity Limits Impurity Parts Per Million Effects of Impurity

     Color Clear and “White” -
    Suspended Matter Trace -
    Total Solids 100 -
    Organic and Volatile Matter 50 Corrosion of positive plate
    Ammonia 8.0 Slight self-discharge of both plates
    Antimony 5.0 Increased self-discharge, reduces life, lower on-charge voltage
    Arsenic 0.50 Self-discharge, can form poisonous gas at negative plate
    Calcium 40 Increase of positive plate shedding
    Chloride 5.0 Loss of capacity in both plates, greater loss on the positive plate
    Copper 5.0 Increased self-discharge, lower on-charge voltage
    Iron 3.0 Increased self-discharge at both plates, lower on-charge voltage
    Magnesium 40 Reduced life
    Nickel None Allowed Substantial lowering of on-charge voltage
    Nitrates 10 Increased sulfation on the negative plate
    Nitrites 5.0 Corrosion of both plates, loss of capacity, reduced life
    Platinum None Allowed Increased self-discharge, lower on-charge voltage
    Selenium 2.0 Positive plate shedding
    Zinc 4.0 Slight self-discharge of negative plate

    I would suggest that you do not use brass/copper fittings and pipes with distilled water...

    I am not a chemist but distilled water has a "fuzzy" PH (acidity). Since there are no buffering agents (distilled water), it can be kind of acidic and attack the metal fittings.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMHO, brass should be fine. You could use lead-free potable water fittings if really concerned, but I doubt the difference would matter.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NO
    Distilled water is called the Universal Solvent for a reason.  It will leach the inside of the tank and tubing.
    Before you stick the spout in the battery purge the water from the hose, to a bucket for another use.   After a couple months, I'd assume the inside of the hose is pretty well leached out and wouldn't have to continue doing it.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    Long term, brass suffers from dezincification.   But no idea of the ppm that would result.

    All plastic fittings is best.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

  • Ako
    Ako Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭
    Will stick to using plastic fittings then  , just need to find the right ones , Spain's not the best place to get things .
    2240 Watt Array  4 x 460 Watt Mono Panels + 2 x 200 Watt Panels
    Victron Smart 150-70 MPPT Charge Controller
    24 volt Battery Bank 4 x 6v 400 Amp/Hr Trojan L16 AGM
    LiFePO4 Lithium 100 Amp/Hr Battery for Backup
    Victron 1600w Multiplus Compact Inverter/Charger
    DC to DC Charger ( Non Isolated )
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    @Ako how's the SG situation? 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Ako
    Ako Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭
    edited August 2018 #8
    Few days and everything seems stable and around where they should be with no more than .01 between cells , been a week sinse i increased the voltage back to where it should be 29.76 so fingers crossed things will remain that way . After i reduced the voltage and toped them up all readings were at the lower end of the 100% ( 1.255 - 1.275 ) for a week but now with correct voltage im seing  around 1.265 . Im convinced its that these batteries are being sensitive to water levels when they are operating at higher temperatures .
    2240 Watt Array  4 x 460 Watt Mono Panels + 2 x 200 Watt Panels
    Victron Smart 150-70 MPPT Charge Controller
    24 volt Battery Bank 4 x 6v 400 Amp/Hr Trojan L16 AGM
    LiFePO4 Lithium 100 Amp/Hr Battery for Backup
    Victron 1600w Multiplus Compact Inverter/Charger
    DC to DC Charger ( Non Isolated )
  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    You should test distilled water for purity.  A TDS meter is cheap on ebay.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Ako said:
    Few days and everything seems stable and around where they should be with no more than .01 between cells , been a week sinse i increased the voltage back to where it should be 29.76 so fingers crossed things will remain that way . After i reduced the voltage and toped them up all readings were at the lower end of the 100% ( 1.255 - 1.275 ) for a week but now with correct voltage im seing  around 1.265 . Im convinced its that these batteries are being sensitive to water levels when they are operating at higher temperatures .
    That's what I've been thinking all along, the water levels and temperature, sorry to side track, just interested on how things are going.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭✭
    Distilled water should have a pH of 7.0 with 0.0 ppm Total Dissolved Solids. If it varies significantly from that, something is wrong at the distillery. Since I see claims of "triple distillation", I may assume that a few impurities can manage to get through the distillation process.

    Don't use a "torch" to check your battery levels. The fumes are pretty flammable. You could lose your eyes and some face material.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    softdown said:

    Don't use a "torch" to check your battery levels. The fumes are pretty flammable. You could lose your eyes and some face material.
    The torch in this case " British terminology ", is a flashlight 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭✭
    mcgivor said:
    softdown said:

    Don't use a "torch" to check your battery levels. The fumes are pretty flammable. You could lose your eyes and some face material.
    The torch in this case " British terminology ", is a flashlight 
    Bloody hell mate. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Ako
    Ako Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭
    mcgivor said:
    softdown said:

    Don't use a "torch" to check your battery levels. The fumes are pretty flammable. You could lose your eyes and some face material.
    The torch in this case " British terminology ", is a flashlight 
    That explains a lot , been scratching my head trying to understand how my small  LED penlight torch could ignite the vapor .  :smile:
    2240 Watt Array  4 x 460 Watt Mono Panels + 2 x 200 Watt Panels
    Victron Smart 150-70 MPPT Charge Controller
    24 volt Battery Bank 4 x 6v 400 Amp/Hr Trojan L16 AGM
    LiFePO4 Lithium 100 Amp/Hr Battery for Backup
    Victron 1600w Multiplus Compact Inverter/Charger
    DC to DC Charger ( Non Isolated )
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,878 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    You folks do know that there is a device called battery filler? saves alot of time... Sorry I had to


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • Ako
    Ako Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭
    edited August 2018 #16
    I already bought one Dave , problem is that they all use the same not adjustable nozzle and fill to less than 2.5cm below the top of the battery , they are fine for car batteries but not for Deep Cycle , Rolls Batteries for instance has a fluid level 4cm from the top of the battery .
    2240 Watt Array  4 x 460 Watt Mono Panels + 2 x 200 Watt Panels
    Victron Smart 150-70 MPPT Charge Controller
    24 volt Battery Bank 4 x 6v 400 Amp/Hr Trojan L16 AGM
    LiFePO4 Lithium 100 Amp/Hr Battery for Backup
    Victron 1600w Multiplus Compact Inverter/Charger
    DC to DC Charger ( Non Isolated )
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,878 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018 #17
    Really thanks for telling me that after 25+ years living offgrid.... I think you need to shop around a bit more. ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    you could always just slip a piece of vinyl hose over the existing spout cut to the desired length. it will still shut off as before, just at a lower depth.
  • Ako
    Ako Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭
    edited August 2018 #19
    you could always just slip a piece of vinyl hose over the existing spout cut to the desired length. it will still shut off as before, just at a lower depth.
    You could but it wouldn't work , the nozzle uses a venture so when the fluid level covers the outlet port which is just under 2.5 cm  along the Valve the difference in pressure shuts off the water flow . The length of pipe would just become submerged in the fluid as it continues to rise .

    Actually the vinyl hose would cover the outlet port which is very close to the end of the nozzle in the side so it wouldn't flow at all .


    2240 Watt Array  4 x 460 Watt Mono Panels + 2 x 200 Watt Panels
    Victron Smart 150-70 MPPT Charge Controller
    24 volt Battery Bank 4 x 6v 400 Amp/Hr Trojan L16 AGM
    LiFePO4 Lithium 100 Amp/Hr Battery for Backup
    Victron 1600w Multiplus Compact Inverter/Charger
    DC to DC Charger ( Non Isolated )
  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    • I have done it in the past and had it work fine. Maybe put a hole in the tubing over the existing spout if it needs it for a back pressure reference.
  • Ako
    Ako Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭
    edited August 2018 #21
    The part of the spout that the water flows from is only exposed when the large top section with the spring in it becomes depressed , the spout then comes out telescopically by about 7mm . There are 3 different diameter plastic sections and you can see in the photo the telescopic spout is the smallest section and concealed within the 2nd section when not in use , all you can see of of is the small O ring on the end of it that stops the water flow when not in use . Where would you slide a Vinyl tube , if its over the next section then it wouldn't stop the flow because the fluid still has to reach the hole at the bottom of the valve to shut it off , it would continue to flow until it reaches that point . Its the fluid covering the hole at the very end that you can see that stops the flow .

    I agree you could make a hole in the vinyl tube to correspond with the outlet hole in the nozzle so the fluid can pass but firstly the large spring loaded section would have to remain permanently depressed to expose the end that does all the work but then how would you overcome the problem of the fluid level still needing to cover the hole , the fluid covering the bottom of the tube when it reaches it wouldn't do it , there would be air in the vinyl tube and air wont stop the flow , it has to be fluid .

    https://www.amazon.com/Lumax-LX-1620-Plastic-Battery-Filler/dp/B000MD4YLQ
    2240 Watt Array  4 x 460 Watt Mono Panels + 2 x 200 Watt Panels
    Victron Smart 150-70 MPPT Charge Controller
    24 volt Battery Bank 4 x 6v 400 Amp/Hr Trojan L16 AGM
    LiFePO4 Lithium 100 Amp/Hr Battery for Backup
    Victron 1600w Multiplus Compact Inverter/Charger
    DC to DC Charger ( Non Isolated )
  • Ako
    Ako Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭
    edited October 2018 #22
    mike95490 said:
    NO
    Distilled water is called the Universal Solvent for a reason.  It will leach the inside of the tank and tubing.
    Before you stick the spout in the battery purge the water from the hose, to a bucket for another use.   After a couple months, I'd assume the inside of the hose is pretty well leached out and wouldn't have to continue doing it.
    This is a concern to me  although from what i have read its actually WATER thats referred to as a universal Solvent and only due to the fact that water is effective at cleaning more substances than any other chemical .What  i hadn't realized was that distilled water would leach the inside of plastic and so end up in the battery fluid  , i guess the plastic containers it comes in is immune to that in some way as would be any pipework and fittings sold for automatic watering systems so now i have to find out whats safe to use as a bulk container for the Distilled water , the pipework , fittings and filling gun .
    2240 Watt Array  4 x 460 Watt Mono Panels + 2 x 200 Watt Panels
    Victron Smart 150-70 MPPT Charge Controller
    24 volt Battery Bank 4 x 6v 400 Amp/Hr Trojan L16 AGM
    LiFePO4 Lithium 100 Amp/Hr Battery for Backup
    Victron 1600w Multiplus Compact Inverter/Charger
    DC to DC Charger ( Non Isolated )
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭✭
    Ako said:
    I already bought one Dave , problem is that they all use the same not adjustable nozzle and fill to less than 2.5cm below the top of the battery , they are fine for car batteries but not for Deep Cycle , Rolls Batteries for instance has a fluid level 4cm from the top of the battery .
    I know mine always overfilled my batteries. Then I felt smart one fine day and drilled the hole to a larger size hoping it would faster. Destroyed it.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭✭
    jonr said:
    Long term, brass suffers from dezincification.   But no idea of the ppm that would result.

    All plastic fittings is best.
    Ako said:
    Will stick to using plastic fittings then  , just need to find the right ones , Spain's not the best place to get things .
    Most plastics leach various chemicals. While still preferable to metals, it isn't as simple as just using plastic. Though  I might hazard a guess that plumbing PVC might be generally acceptable. Shoot, everyone used copper pipe for decades while the utilities used iron pipe. Which all beats the Romans with their lead plumbing pipes.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries