Help Midnite Solar Classic 150 Experts - Resting not float

tr0ytr0y Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭
Hi All - 

I have a Midnite solar Classic 150 in my RV, I have approximately 1600 watts  6 275 watt panels,  of PV on the roof wired in Series / Parallel ( yes slightly over paneled but within the OK via Midnite Solars site, they are also flat mounted in a very hot climate. ) 

I am new to this controller, have had Outback controllers for the last 10 years and thought I would give one of these a try, so looking at it is is reading 60.x watts 0000 watts coming in  and resting. Batteries reading 13.2v Should I now not be in float rather than resting ?  Panels were working fine last night and early this AM ? The Midnite solar manual is not the greatest. Is this normal or should I start looking for issues ? 

Thanks 
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Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the battery voltage is above the setpoint for the stage you are in, it goes to RESTING.  Do you have another charge source active now?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • tr0ytr0y Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭
    No no other charge sources available. This now would make sense as Float is set @ 13.4v per battery manufacturer spec, and it is also 107F outside. It would be my guess that the temperature compensation is seeing that and backing the voltage down slightly. My bet is if I did the math I am right about where I should be. 

    Midnite Solar just is not real clear on what device status is/ means in their documentation.  
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the android app for classic shows reason for resting, as does the Midnite LocalApp. Listing of codes...
    http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=2034.0
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭✭

    So,  tr0y,

    Am having a bit of a problem  understanding exactly what you are saying when you said,  "   ...   so looking at it is is reading 60.x watts 0000 watts coming in  and resting. Batteries reading 13.2v Should I now not be in float rather than resting ?   ..."

    One thought,   is,  when the Classic finishes Absorb,  it will enter the Float stage,   and that will be displayed for about 90 seconds,   but,   depending on the amount of load on the system,   the battery voltage will remain above the temperature-compensated  Float setpoint  (Vflt).  After those about 90 seconds,  if the battery voltage remains above the compensated Vflt,   the Classic will "Rest",  until the battery voltage descends to the comped Vflt,   and again show Float, but with some power being delivered to the batteries and loads.

    Do you believe that you might have been looking at the Classic  when it was in this stage? The time period for power being produced in Float  after exiting Absorb  is often minutes,   depending on the size of the battery bank,   the kind of batteries (Lithium batteries often require a long time to begin producing power,  after exiting Absorb),   and the loads on the system ...

    FWIW,   guessing,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My 12v system today was resting with reason for resting 38. LocalApp reports this as "unknown". According to the linked post, RFR38 is "the new sleep, because other sources appear to be charging". I do have another source (panels for winter float charging on pwm controllers) on both 12v and 48v banks. The float panels are a bit more west oriented in their temporary home, so start seeing sun and end later than the main array

    The 48v bank has larger daytime loads though, and is less likely to go into a resting state. In other words, I think @Vic is correct if the RFR is the same, basically the classic doesn't need to provide current to maintain float when it thinks it should, so it rests.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 970 ✭✭✭✭
    What is the PV INPUT voltage ?  Have you tried going to the TWEAKS menu and forcing a BULK just to see if it comes out of resting ?
    When the battery gets hot, the set-point voltage goes down even further which might be a part of this.

    If you go into the CHARGE menu, them Temp-Comp sub-menu and hit the VIEW key (upper-right or soft-right key), it will show what the present target voltage is...  If it is lower than the actual battery voltage then that is all it is.

    The INPUT voltage must also be higher than the battery voltage by a certain amount too to start up from resting.

    boB
  • tr0ytr0y Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭
    @Vic
    It sound as if I may have seen it at the point that you indicated. There is little to no load on the system at the moment as it is in an RV and today the RV is just sitting in its spot, hanging out. Also again the ambient temp outside is was about 107 when I took this picture. 



    This could be totally normal, but I am new to the Midnite Solar controllers and have just never seen this is all.  There was and is plenty of sun and a clear shot to the PV panels so if it needed that to make power there was more than enough. 

    Thanks 
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭✭

    OK tr0y,

    Thanks for the update.   Please let us know how the system is doing during the next few days.

    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 970 ✭✭✭✭
    Take a look at the Reason for Resting number.  From the main status screen, HOLD down the LEFT-ARROW key and tap the ENTER key...   A new menu comes up and there should be a number at the top middle of the screen (and some other numbers).  OR, take a picture of it. 

  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    Good evening sir I have also having a problem of midnite solar charger controller 200
    It is always resting even at the high pick of the sun
  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    I'm using 48v
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,869 admin
    Sanmed,

    Yours is showing 0.0 volts on the solar array input... Have you checked with a voltmeter on the Varray-input terminals to see if it is really zero volts?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It may help to know the reason for resting code (see post #10 above).
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    Thank you very much bill
    I take some pictures
  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    Tommorow I will post all the settings in my midnite 

    As of now I cannot take a picture since I am in a remote area

    Thank you very much bill

  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    @bill 

    Where can I found the solar array input 

    Is it in aux 1 or in aux 2 or in charge menu or in volts or in tweaks?  A big help from you bill thanks in advance 
  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    I have installed 200amp pv per piece and put it in series for 7 panels 

    I have also victron bluetooth shunt installed
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think Bill was suggesting you use a separate multimeter to read the voltage present at the pv input terminals of the classic.  Doing so may narrow the possible issues (ie problem with the classic vs problem with external wiring, open breaker, etc.)
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    thanks estragon

    i did it the multimeter reads 12v yesterday

    but because i am having a hard to fix i dont know what to do next i think i will take a lot of pictures all my set up so that the experts from here can answer my problem a big thanks estragon 


  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,869 admin
    There are two major sets of terminals on a solar charge controller.... The Vpanel input and the Vbatt output.

    If you are reading 12 volts on the Vpanel input with any sort of direct sun on the panel/array, you have a wiring (connections, broken wiring, failed panel) problem.

    The solar charge controller cannot use energy from the solar array until Vpanel is, at least, a few volts above Vbatt output (you read 51 volts on battery bus, need >~53 volts on Vpanel to harvest any energy from the array).

    Many times, if you have a broken connection on the solar array wiring, you will see some voltage on the Vpanel input. There can be a tiny amount of leakage current "backwards" through the solar charge controller from Vbatt to Vpanel ... And modern DMM (Digital Multimeters) can read that very small amount of current and get a voltage measurement).

    So--It is possible that 12 volts is just an "artifact" voltage from the solar charge controller, and you are getting zero current from the solar array. Or you may be getting a very small amount of current from the solar array (loose connection, corroded connection from water leak, small fury creature with sharp teeth cut the wire, etc.).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    thank you very much bill i will check tomorrow morning and take all picture of my set program from midnite menus

    great day a head this forum helps a lot thanks guys    
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Something to keep in mind if checking pv wiring is that disconnecting/reconnecting while panels are potentially producing power can create electrical arcs, which the contacts in mc4 connectors can be damaged by. 

    When making/breaking connections, I like to cover panels with a blanket or something, and turn the charge controller off (in my case opening the pv input breaker).  With 7 x 200w panels in series the voltage could be ~150v, so precautions are a good thing.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,869 admin
    SanMed,

    Can you tell us a bit more about your solar panels? Vmp and Imp ratings? How you have 7 panels wired (all in parallel, all in series, some sort of series/parallel)?

    And what model of Midnite Classic do you have... Some models have higher Array input rated voltages... At this point, with a standard 150 VDC max input controller and 200 Watt panels which are either Vmp~30 volts or more, or possibly Vmp~18 volts * 7 = 126 volts) you are getting into pretty high input voltage (126 volts Vmp-array) unless you are in a warm/hot climate... In cold climates, the Midnite could shut itself down to protect itself against too high of input voltage.

    There are not too many 200 Watt solar panels with Vmp~18 volt output... Most are Vmp~30 volts or higher (7 panels in series * 30 volts per panel = 210 volts Vmp-array).

    I guess you are in/around the Philippines, so it is possible that 7x18Vmp is fine for the 150 Volt rated Midnite.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think he said classic200, so 200v max operating string voltage, 248v max in "hypervoc" (standby).
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,869 admin
    I am mixing Troy's first post and SanMed's tag on to the original thread...

    You are correct Estragon.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    i purchase midnite solar charger controller classic 200


    i have 12volts solar panel 200amps each panel  in series 

     -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+
    the neg in the pv connect to the pv neg in midnite and the positive + is in the positive pv connect to midnite 
    i have also mnspd midnite solar 115 max 150 attached to pv

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,869 admin
    Can you tell us the ratings off the back of the panels (i.e., Pmp, Vmp, Imp)?

    In general, you have either 100 or 200 Watt panels. Vmp is either ~18 or 30 volts (typically) which would make Imp (current maximum power). Some examples of the math:
    • 200 Watt panel / 30 Volts Vmp = 6.67 amps Imp (estimated)
    • 200 Watt panel / 18 volts Vmp = 11.11 amps Imp (estimated)
    The "200 Amps" does not make much sense for a home solar array...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SanmedrxgmppharmaSanmedrxgmppharma Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    sorry guys i have 7 panels 200 watts 

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Measuring the PV terminals on the midnight classic series, will always return at least 50% of the battery voltage.  It's just a internal leakage thing that happens in the Classics.  
    (classic 200 owner)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,869 admin
    No problem on the panel ID... Just would like to know the Vmp and Imp rating of the panel. There are variations in what Vmp/Imp is available with ~200 Watt panels...

    If you have the "wrong" Vmp rated panels--7x those in series can damage your charge controller (7x 30 Volts Vmp = 210 VDC Vmp-array which is over the 200 VDC operating voltage range in cooler weather)... 

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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