Finally an energy saving window unit built ! Wow

2

Comments

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not think you are right mcgivor. I have never seen an AC that uses an outdoor sensor. They use an indoor sensor and the programmed temp to form a differential temp. It is that differential, and as it gets larger, it causes more current to be consumed.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Both my split units have an outdoor cooling supply air temperature sensor and an indoor return air temperature sensor apart from the remote control, which is the setpoint sensor.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,494 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think at least some air source heat pump type units use exterior sensor(s) for defrost lockout purposes.

    Some commercial (maybe some residential too?) also use humidistats so latent as well as sensible heat can be properly controlled.  80° and sticky is much more uncomfortable than 80° at 50%rh.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2019 #35
    Come-on!  Can we stay with the subject here, not every possible way to control cooling. You can always start your own thread right?
    I would like the guy who bought this unit in this thread to try it at 75F and measure it. I don't really care if it that accurate just ballpark,
    Thanks!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not think you are right mcgivor. I have never seen an AC that uses an outdoor sensor. They use an indoor sensor and the programmed temp to form a differential temp. It is that differential, and as it gets larger, it causes more current to be consumed.
    So just because you haven't seen something means it doesn't exist? If all you know is what you've seen, then you haven't seen much, always keep an open mind, because one who fails to listen is blind. Oh, yes, I'll get out of your sandbox, the comments were relitive in the flow of conversation, so get over it and move on, as you so commonly use divert attention. Window units are obsolete, used only as temporary solutions in areas such as New York where buildings were built prior to ducted systems, the rest of the world, and the rest of U.S, for that matter,  has moved on and gotten over the inefficiencies, it's difficult to reinvent the wheel, but if you must.

    Having a background in building management systems with Siebe, formally Barber Coleman and Delta Controls, under the umbrella of Energrated Systems has enlightened me to the finesse of energy management.Sensors, both indoor and outdoor play a pivotal role in fine tuning a system, both large and small, hence their use.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Mike_in_PAMike_in_PA Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited July 2019 #37
    At Angelini's and other's suggestion, I did set the unit at 75 and "energy saver" yesterday AM, but outdoor temps dropped below that over night, so not very useful.  It is doing a great job dehumidifying, and it is really really quiet. 9 kwh in the last 24 hours, but br door is open, and its also providing some cooling downstairs..

    Re comparison to split systems, this $450 window unit (after local rebate) is in part old technology, and part new.   The current crop of high SEER (30 and up) mini splits with low temp heating performance are ideal for many many buildings.  As I said, I put a mini split in a client's house 10 years back and the performance is amazing. I have looked at two units for my house but a better solution for me is add a coil for the GSHP into the duct work, but haven't gotten there yet.  So if this unit is delivering high COPs at part load, I have found a useful stop gap, one that lets me get decent sleep.  Does it deliver high COPs at part load?

    I looked at the testing standards for RAC (room air conditioner) but could not quite get to the actual procedure.  I am guessing that the procedure requires operating at or near rated capacity--or includes it in the overall testing regime.  As we all know, when an variable speed compressor heat pump systems slows down, efficiency improves.  I am guessing that at 50 % load, the CEER is higher than what is on the Energy Guide label, just guessing.

    A useful test would be for someone with a 14 kbtu or similar split system installing one of the windows AC's temporarily into the same conditioned space and alternating between the two for a reasonable time period, say a month.   

    Anyway, I will start tracking indoor temps, kwh usage, outdoor temps and solar radiation if it gets really hot again. With a detailed thermal calc on the conditioned space, and temperatures for attic and adjacent spaces, I should be able to get into a ballpark COP on this runnning at 50% and under loads.  Unless someone beats me to it.      
    48 GEPV-110, 2 SMA 2500U, 7 AE32s since 2004 
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank-you Mike. I have a client who uses one and he was getting some weird numbers.

    Please ignore the "noise" here as it is just very petty and not usually what this forum has been about.

     The people who make this forum are folks like you. The 9kwh is useful for me. If you could run it for 12 hours near 75F that would be nice also. It is amazing how quiet it is, I hear that alot :)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks, knowing that the 1400 btu will ''ram down' so low will encourage me to buy one at the end of the season sales, since it appears the 9500btu won't ship this summer. I only have a 450 square foot room to deal with.

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am with you that the smaller size will be much more useful for running at night offgrid. The person that I am asking for just sets at 78f and it works pretty well at night. The LG wifi App works really also.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 794 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2019 #41
    The 9500 BTU unit (LG LW1019IVSM) is now available on Amazon for $419.99 with free shipping.


    4200W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sweet ! Thx Rick!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 794 ✭✭✭✭
    Raj174 said:
    The 9500 BTU unit (LG LW1019IVSM) is now available on Amazon for $419.99 with free shipping.


    This A/C has gone up to $469 on Amazon, but still available at Four Seasons Trading Co. for $419 with free shipping.

    https://www.fourseasonstradingcompany.com/LG-Energy-Star-9500-BTU-115V-Dual-Inverter-Window-Air-Conditioner-with-Wi-Fi-Control-LW1019IVSM_p_4494.html
    4200W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Helped a neighbor cut a 12"x 24" wall opening, some light framing and an hour later it was running. He said he would have paid more for the quiet cooling. It is impressive and a 1/4 what my split cost. Nice to know that it finally is out there.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    they changed it, Fair Trade is now $469.99...all same now, :(:'(
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • billybob9billybob9 Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭
    One thing to remember is if you're running central air ( both heat and Air Conditioning ) is leave every door to rooms open. If you close a bathroom door and it is part of the duct system, it will pressurize that room and blow your heat or cool air out the bathroom vent. If your pulling air from the out side in, the same goes and opening a window upstairs while pulling air in down stairs is a good idea, but what do I know. 
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most people I know don't have or abandon the ducting in a central air system. It wastes energy, is hard to clean and not needed except in very, very large offgrid homes.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • billybob9billybob9 Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭
    Your right just the blower is 400W, but I'm stuck with it and use it sparingly. I'm sure you meant to say on grid homes where the Electric Company calls the shots.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No I did not mean that.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Mike_in_PAMike_in_PA Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    I have not had the time to estimate the COP on the 14 kbtu unit, but do have more subjective observations.

    First, the unit does not double cooling output when going from 600 to 1200 watts.  It feels more like about a 50% increase, at most.  Put another way, the unit feels like it is already delivering most of rated cooling when at less than 50% power.

    Second, at 600 watts this unit is delivering way more flow a lower temps than a non-inverter 8kbtu unit is, another room.   Huge difference.  

    All subjective, but it suggests that buying a larger unit and running it at 30% or so load would be better than a smaller unit at say 60% load.

    Also, this thing throttles way down by the morning.  150 watts.  
    48 GEPV-110, 2 SMA 2500U, 7 AE32s since 2004 
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The flaw in your thinking is buying a larger unit for offgrid is that you may also have to buy a larger battery. 
    The strategy is to use the battery you have and live within your means offgrid.

    Mike your point may be very valid for a grid home using the utility as a battery.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭
    My previous window  unit, bit the dust during the heatwave in pa back in july.. Couldn,t find any air conditioners locally. They were sold out. So ordered one of these from lowes.and went to VA to my daughters so I could be cool. So far I am very pleased as it keeps  my whole 1500 square foot double wide at 70 with the upper 80 degree weather with high humidity. It has a sleve type housing you install into the window, then you install the air conditioner into the sleeve. box. I plan on leaving it in the window year round. Made a rectangle support from 1-1/4 inch electrical conduit. The bottom leans against the wall and the top leans out to the back of the unit to support it . Screwed a piece of scrap wood to the bottom of the airconditioner so the plastic pipe support can not kick out. 
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
    Is the 9500 BTW LG Inverter unit the smallest one?  Has anyone seen where LG is moving toward smaller models.  I am holding out buying a "typical" 5000 BTU unit in hopes of finding some brand of Inverter compressor model in that size.
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why ? You can limit the BTU to just about 4 different values down from spec. This is such an amazing upgrade from any window unit ever made. Is your budget that tight? You will kick yourself for waiting but that is your choice.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2019 #55
    No budget not tight. But I don't understand

    "You can limit the BTU to just about 4 different values down from spec"

    Is that with fan speed, thermostat, ecommode settings? or is there a setting for lowering the btu of the unit? What is the lowest it can be set?

    What is  the lowest amp draw this unit can be set to be? I am seeing on the spec sheet that the rated amps is 11.5 for the 9500 btu model. The energy star is $50 for 8 hrs a day / 3 months per year /. 13 c a KWH

    I am only needing to cool 250 Sq ft.

    I looked at the 6000 btu lg (not compressor) and it ran at 4.4 amps (spec) and it's energy star was $47
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
    With the energy star rating being so close between the 9500 and 6000 btu units,  would the required Whrs per day be very similar 
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 794 ✭✭✭✭
    @MrM1
    The inverter has the ability to throttle down the compressor to the point where it will produce less BTUs if that is the cooling requirement. The fan speed is selectable. I believe the rating is based on cooling a much larger room than you have. Probably around 400 sq. feet.
    The benefit is low power surge and although it may ramp up to 11.5 amps, it would rather quickly com down to about 2 to 4 amps AC.

    Rick
    4200W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Rick 

    I wonder, has anyone put a meter on on it yet? 
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
    Un related... But our 2 ton mini split 21 seer cooling our 40x30 shop settles in at 2.8 amps 
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 794 ✭✭✭✭
    672 watts, that's pretty amazing considering it's over 90° outside.
    4200W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2019 #61
    All Right ... Here you go.   LG 9500 BTU Inverter Compressor.   Room is 79° F.  It's 87° outside with 62% humidity.  The LG is set to 61°F  Running on Cool / Hi Fan.    10.28 Amps,  66.2 db noise.


    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
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