Tesla Solar Roof Tiles

Dave Angelini

It looks like Tesla is getting serious as they let CalFire do a video on their roof tiles. Too many wires for my taste and being on a roof is something I never encourage Offgrid. I am sure there will be plenty of folks to send a check and get on Elons waiting list. The design does look to me as decent but time will tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=42&v=zunHya-0EQY

mcgivor

Tesla seems pretty good at selling waiting lists 

Estragon

> @mcgivor said:
> Tesla seems pretty good at selling waiting lists 

Nice work, if you can get it

mike95490

From the NYPost

https://nypost.com/2018/07/21/elon-musk-is-a-total-fraud/

Musk has been in business since 2002. His stated goal is nothing short of transforming humanity through his products: his electric cars, space travel, and an underground high-speed Hyperloop system.

He has yet to succeed at anything but somehow spins every failure into proof of imminent success. His only accomplishment has been this decades-long Jedi mind trick.

Tesla is best known for blowing deadlines and consistently falling short on production.

Photowhit

I think his SpaceX has been successful, and gives him something to point at and make promises...

mcgivor

Seems everything associated with Tesla involves a deposit, cars,  solar roof tiles, extraterrestrial journeys, you name it, but here is the question, when the car fails to be produced on time, or the Space X journey is delayed, dose the refunded down payment include interest, or is that actually a way of funding a company which falls short on actual production, whilst holding the funds received from deposits, not under Elon's mattress obviously, but in investment funds making interest. 

Dave Angelini

Photowhit said:

I think his SpaceX has been successful, and gives him something to point at and make promises...

Definitely and one would be foolish to ignore that. My brother-in-law forecasts weather for space at Vandenberg AFB in Socal.
SpaceX dominates their launch Schedule. 

So anybody look at the roof tiles?

mcgivor

Watched what I could, 90% of the video, music? more than annoying, wonder what sort of temperatures develop in the air gap underneath the tiles ,  possibly reducing output or exceeding the conductors rated maximum temperature, is there consideration of derating factors due to temperature, reducing current carrying capacity of the conductors.

Dave Angelini

The music does really let one down as does most of the music that young people like these days. Emotional Rap....right.

All roofs are pretty bad for temperature effects. Most of the wire in this Ap is 1KV or higher now so that is not an issue. 
I was told the Calfire guys in the video are here in my area/town fighting the Ferguson Fire. Day 14 for us stuck mostly indoors because of smoke outside. Getting very old....

here is some more.

"There are only a handful of Tesla Solar Roof installations out there at this point, but they are slowly ramping up production and installations, which means that first responders need to be ready to know how to approach this new kind of roof in case of emergency.

A training video showing how to do just that gives us a rare and interesting look at Tesla’s solar roof tiles.

Brock Archer is a first responder training expert who has often worked with Tesla in the past. For example, we have seen him go through the Tesla Model X’s unique structure by dismantling it.

While his methods are obviously destructive, he is often one of the first people to give us a detailed look at the architectures of Tesla’s products and it is the case again with Tesla’s solar roof tiles.

Archer said about the structure found underneath a solar tile installation:

“The solar tiles are mounted directly on the clad gard. Wiring for the tiles is hidden below the tiles themselves between the tiles and the clad gard. Each solar tile represents 3 shingles – a single tile appears to be 3 shingle on the roof and one to four of these tiles can be wired together to create branches. These branches are then wired together to create a diode trunk harness. The diode trunk harness carries the electricity from all the panels through the roof usually near the ridgeline. Typically, only about 16 volts is present in each branch – although the diode trunk harness operates at a much higher voltage.”

The first responder training expert added that based on all the testing conducted, there’s “almost zero risks of shock or electrocution when cutting or crushing the tiles or diode trunk harness.” The roof installations are not earth grounded.

All Tesla solar roof installations still also include a “rapid shutdown device” which shuts down the DC power leaving the roof.

As for removing the tiles in a first responder situation, Archer explains that it is fairly easy since they are basically mounted on a hinge:

In the video below, they dismantle a demonstration Tesla solar roof tile installation in order to show how to create ventilation or a path to walk on the roof if needed.

You can watch the full video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=42&v=zunHya-0EQY

peakbaggger

Looks to me like the majority of the tiles are some sort HDPE or polypropylene with a thin glass facer. Most plastics dont deal well with long term UV so the glass may last quite awhile but curious how the seams will hold up.

The thing that they do that most roofers are now doing wth shingles is install a waterproof membrane under the entire surface area of the roof. The tiles or shingles effectively become UV and physical damage protection for the underlying roof membrane which acts to seal the penetrations and provide a waterproof membrane. The shingles do seem to lift up quite easily, I am curious if they are rated for high wind loading zones. It sure looks like its potentially a slow install compared to shingles. Once the lines are snapped slapping down shingles is quite quick, with two workers, as soon as the shingle is down its nailed and they move to the next shingle. I expect they have some sort of jig to position the anchors but they look to require more fasteners that most likely need to be screwed in.

Wonder how they would do with ice damming? In theory the water would run under the shingles but if the soffits are cold once the water starts backing up, the tiles might pop loose.

Its too bad that they will release the video without releasing installation information.

Dave Angelini

The video is by Calfire, the ones in the news putting out all of these crazy fires in California and the west.
They could care less how they are installed, spec or warranty. They care about safety and putting out fires

peakbaggger

That wasn't my point, I respect that they have issued the video to protect firefighters just not happy that to date Tesla hasn't been very forthcoming on the construction details of the system.

Dave Angelini

Is Tesla ever  very forthcoming?

mcgivor

Perhaps it's because an individual can't install the tiles without being  licensed contractor as with most Tesla products, the demonstration was to highlight what fire fighters have to deal with, it wasn't targeted at the curious, perhaps there are other videos or links with the details related to the installation, perhaps not. Firefighters face many booby traps and their lives depend on information to be better prepared, although I do understand the curiosity.  

garynappi

30 seconds into the vid that nauseating "music" made me FF'd to the fireman talking, nope that HORRID "music" was STILL there, not me. 

icarus

Few people ever got rich betting against Elon Musk...not an endorsement, but simply showing history.  Tony

Dave Angelini

Saw this yesterday...

By Tim Binnall

SpaceX founder Elon Musk briefly discussed the possibility that intelligent extraterrestrials may be out in space and largely dismissed such a scenario. The colorful entrepreneur reportedly made the comments on Saturday at the long-awaited unveiling of his private space company's reusable launch system known as 'Starship Mk.' While musing about his ambition to quickly develop a self-sustaining colony on Mars, he observed that "as far as we know, we're the only consciousness or the only life that's out there. There might be other life, but we've seen no signs of it."

Musk went on to note that he often gets asked "'what do you know about the aliens," presumably since the head of a massive private space company might have some insight into the matter. However, he claimed that he is as in the dark about the subject as the rest of us, revealing that "I'm pretty sure I'd know if there were aliens" and yet "I've not seen any sign of aliens."

Regarding the longstanding belief of many that the government knows about the existence of aliens and is keeping the information hidden from the public, Musk offered his own somewhat conspiratorial answer to that idea. "Let me tell you, the fastest way to increase defense funding," he said, would be to announce "hey, we found an alien." For that reason, he seemed doubtful that the government would cover-up their knowledge of ETs for very long, arguing that "guaranteed, that would be on display in like two seconds."

He wrapped up his thoughts on extraterrestrials by asserting that "the reality is, as far as we know, this is the only place, at least in this part of the galaxy or in the Milky Way, where there is consciousness." When pressed by a member of the audience who jokingly said that they didn't believe Musk when he claimed not to have knowledge of aliens, he responded "I hope I'm wrong. If they are here, I hope they're nice. You know, they haven't killed us yet, so they must be not that bad."

Estragon

Seems to me he has in the past suggested our universe may not really exist at all, and we're actually part of a simulation (like a really advanced SimCity).  I don't think there's a definitive way of proving it one way or another, or that really matters much in practical terms even if true.  It might help explain some of the weirdness in quantum mechanics and other bizarre stuff though.

He's probably right about the defense spending thing.

Dave Angelini

Yes on the spending but the solar tiles still suck. Then, I do not like anything on a roof but rainwater.

Estragon

Me too.  Could use a bit less rainwater as well though... got something like 3x normal in Sept.

icarus

^Yea, but now we are starting to get snow!  Tony

Estragon

Hopefully not like last year when we got a foot or so in mid-Oct.  Supposed to be ~1" of rain on the weekend, which could be a foot of snow if it's cold enough.

The lake is already really high for this time of year, and the bush soaked.  If it doesn't drain, likely another bad slush winter and maybe too high water spring?

Dave Angelini

Our med climate use to end fire season about this time of year with the first rains. The brush has quadrupled from unintended consequences and these days it is fire season 1 week or so after the last rain.  Fire season all year. 

Did you see Elon's starship?
https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-interior-video-elon-musk.html

MrM1

Estragon said:

Seems to me he has in the past suggested our universe may not really exist at all, and we're actually part of a simulation (like a really advanced SimCity). 

Sounds pretty Christian Science -  reality is purely spiritual and the material world an illusion - like to me. 

softdown

Dave Angelini said:

Our med climate use to end fire season about this time of year with the first rains. The brush has quadrupled from unintended consequences and these days it is fire season 1 week or so after the last rain.  Fire season all year. 

Did you see Elon's starship?
https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-interior-video-elon-musk.html

Wanted to ask about your take on the recent multi-day PG&E power outage and usage of LIDAR for mapping many counties. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tay4dE7jas&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0tvO2L-AmtWNRWWOTybt1CqrsMxQWz5nNRQ37OcQFx6CKi5Mkux8vlbkM

I have a certain fondness for interesting conspiratorial explanations - I'll keep those to myself. 

Going back to 2018 posts - I think Musk is credited with inventing PayPal - a pretty successful venture. I also suspect that running a car company in today's regulatory infested environment is not something any mild mannered person would relish. If anyone thinks succeeding in business is easy, I would bet they have not done it. 

Dave Angelini

PG & E outages are great for my business. I have 3 standard packages depending on the user having the ability to DIY with my guidance by text or email. I do not want to be far away from home anymore. A pretty normal thing for one who has seen most of the earth that I want to see.

Politically, PG&E did what the state regulated. If you have people at the top who are clueless, the Utility just takes care of their shareholders and California is the deep pocket. Same in most any business where the prices are most always payed by the consumer.

Don't forget Elon's Boring company, hope for people who live in LA. 

softdown

^ Hopefully - that would be great for LA. Their traffic grid lock is horrible. But it doesn't look like his huge, high speed vacuum tube to S.F. is practical.

I thought a multi-day power outage with extensive use of LIDAR surveillance technology was interesting. Perhaps Big Brother provided funding for the data that Big Brother is noted for craving. Very few will have any idea what is being referenced of course.

mike95490

I've actually seen the chopper with the big camera, "flying the lines" around here last month.   They were not restricting themselves to just the power lines though, they flew a grid over the city and outskirts, much of it nowhere near any lines.