Going off grid

westbranch

AS BB said, but only start with 4 GC 6V cells.. that would give you max ~ 2.5 kWhr of power to 50% SoC per day and panel up to get them charged and put the rest up when you move in... In reality using the gen during the day to charge (BULK) and power big items,  the rest in the evening/night would not be too a heavy strain on those batteries.

wellbuilt

o k,  do you guys think I could stick with the EVO2224  and  just run off 4 gc215 battery's at 24 volts? 
 I could just replace the battery bank next year , and buy a larger bank when I have more $$ .
could you help me with genarator size ? 
 I'm a little worried about running  dirty genarator power thru the inverter and burning up things in the house . 
 I have a 4750 watt champion genarator for now . 
 I will say it starts up on 1 pull every time but won't hold voltage much past 3000 watts 
 It has about 500 hrs now.
  The champion is a deal at 300 $. And change .

westbranch

wellbuilt said:

1)   o k,  do you guys think I could stick with the EVO2224  and  just run off 4 gc215 battery's at 24 volts? 
 I could just replace the battery bank next year , and buy a larger bank when I have more $$ .
2)  could you help me with genarator size ? 
 I'm a little worried about running  dirty genarator power thru the inverter and burning up things in the house . 
 I have a 4750 watt champion genarator for now . 
 I will say it starts up on 1 pull every time but won't hold voltage much past 3000 watts 
 It has about 500 hrs now.
  The champion is a deal at 300 $. And change .

1) YES, this will give you a year to try to kill them,,, (wink)
2) I use my 1000i w Honda (~800W) for most things but it will not push my 1500 W charger, but the 2000 W gen does...   Costco carries a new Inverter type Champion 2000W / 1600w ...  if they are as good as the others, motor wise, may be an option.. did not see any reviews, must be quite new.

wellbuilt

I guess I will stick with th 2224 inverter charger , and run with the gc battery's 
 I need to have a large enough genarator to run loads in the house and charge at the same time..
 the inverter charger can't invert and charge at the same time. 

Photowhit

wellbuilt said:

I guess I will stick with th 2224 inverter charger , and run with the gc battery's 
 I need to have a large enough genarator to run loads in the house and charge at the same time..
 the inverter charger can't invert and charge at the same time. 

That sounds odd, it will 'pass through' though won't it? so you don't change connections, but use the energy from the genny through the same connections?

westbranch

And able to leap over TALL buildings in a single bound!

https://www.samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=574

Sounds pretty solid to me.
  It intelligently integrates a 70 Amp 4 stage Battery Charger and a 40 Amp Transfer Relay

AC Inputs

• Two separate AC inputs – one for grid (priority #1), one for generator (priority #2), connect simultaneously, no need to reconfigure when different power sources are available.
• Generator Input is specifically designed to have more tolerance for wave form distortion, prevents unnecessary “rejection of AC input and switch to inverter” by tolerating distorted wave forms that can be produced by gritty generators
• Each AC input is programmable for voltage and frequency. User determines what the min and max thresholds are to switch from Grid or Generator to Inverter.
• Generator start can be initiated by “Status Relay” contact, can be programmed to activate when grid is lost.

WaterWheel

westbranch said:

Softdown,  just read this piece of history...https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-fed-went-from-lender-last-resort-destroyer-american-booth?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQH3t79vAHtEKQ&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=3O_zSmHvbpknE

Westbranch,     That is a very good article that covers a lot of ground.       I've been a strong proponent for faising the prime rate for years and am strongly against QE.

Thanks for posting the link.

wellbuilt

Yes it passes thru but dirty power goes to the house and blows stuff up . 
At home , I lost a stove computer and frig all on the same day , my volts where way down because some one was twisting the knobs and I did not check , the Genny blows up cell phones and screw gun battery chargers .
 I have a honda water cooled 6500 inverter genarator for 1200 bucks from a dealer .
it was a trade in last year . But it will burn more fuel .
 The champion is doing what I need now .
 The champion 2000 watt has been around for a few years , they look ok , but every thing I do needs more power .

westbranch

Why haven't you sold the one that blows things up, (?) it has already cost you too much, way more than running the Honda 6500i... 
I use the most suitable one for the job I want to do, 2 to do most work and the 3 rd for BIG jobs - and as a backup now -... hth as I can't think of any other choices to minimize your short and long term costs.... and headaches.

oil pan 4

I looked into getting an inverter type alternator backup generator.
I found that at half load and greater they are dead even in fuel consumption.
Then the inverter only has a good fuel economy advantage if you are running it at 1/4 capacity or less compared to running a directdrive generator of the same capacity.

wellbuilt

The genarator that  blue up  the house is the best unit I have. It a old Kawasaki  3200 3500 I  Believe  1987 vintage 
 Some onemoved the voltage adjust ment tha caused the problem . 
 But some things don't run on a Chinese genarator,  like tool chargers  cell phones .
 Insurance payed for the appliances . 
 The problem with the Honda is I don't owne it yet , it's been sitting at the dealer for 11/2 years . 
 It was a pull and replace with a propain  unit . 
 I was looking att a year ago  but the battery was dead  and the guys did not have time to get it running . 
 It was 2500 then now 1250 . 
 I mite offer 1000 if I could here it running . 
 It was a 4500 dollar unit 6 years ago .
  

wellbuilt

Yes it passes thru but dirty power goes to the house and blows stuff up . 
At home , I lost a stove computer and frig all on the same day , my volts where way down because some one was twisting the knobs and I did not check , the Genny blows up cell phones and screw gun battery chargers .
 I have a honda water cooled 6500 inverter genarator for 1200 bucks from a dealer .
it was a trade in last year . But it will burn more fuel .
 The champion is doing what I need now .
 The champion 2000 watt has been around for a few years , they look ok , but every thing I do need more power .

wellbuilt

Hi all I have more questions . 
 With a evo2224 samalex inverter what would be the   Optima  size  genarator in watts I was thinking 4500 watt would work . 
 As far as solar panels go , is there any difference in watts 250. 295 305 ? 
 Mono or poly type ? 
 
 

mcgivor

wellbuilt said:

Hi all I have more questions . 
 With a evo2224 samalex inverter what would be the   Optima  size  genarator in watts I was thinking 4500 watt would work . 
 As far as solar panels go , is there any difference in watts 250. 295 305 ? 
 Mono or poly type ? 
 
 

The 4500w generator is suitable at double the maximum output/charging for the evo 2224, generally the requirements are to size the generator at 150% maximum output of the inverter / charger, at least.

The panels are rated by watts 250 295 and 300W respectively, 60 cell are used with MPPT CC, 72 cell, usually in > 300W, are used with PWM CC and tend to be more expensive.
Mono are reputed to be more efficient, produce slightly more power in low sunlight conditions than poly, but at a higher price. The difference however is minimal, choice comes down to having space as mono require a smaller footprint for the same power, otherwise the difference is negligible.

wellbuilt

I see a lot of people have more then 1 power system ? 
 How do they use the systems? 
 I was thinking I would have 1 main system to run the house for day time
  1 smaller system to run my frig tv and a few lights over night . 
   1 solar only system to pump water into a tank . 
   And maybe a smaller system to run 24/7 when we are not there to open the garage door keep some lights on out side and  maybe run a alarm /  surveillance cameras . 
 Or am I better off sticking with 1 system .

Photowhit

Multiple system don't make sense to me, with 2 exceptions, if there is distance involved, the well pump or barn is just a long ways to run AC out to them... Or you use 12 or 24 volt for a few things, though even then I would look into a converter.

It's much easier to stay on top of 1 system.

Estragon

I run two systems, and may add a third for remote monitoring etc. There are pros and cons to doing this.

The main cons are added initial cost, and complexity.

The main pros are inverter efficiency, and redundancy for when something fails.

wellbuilt

how far from the house should I have my genarator ? 
 I don't really want a small box sitting up next to the house, I was thinking 40 feet from the house 70' from the power panel .
 I was thinking  the battery's inverter charge controler  would sit in the garage with my service and panel. 
 The genarator s would be in a shed 40' from the house . 
 I'm thinking the shed will be 6x10 with a 6' wide door . 
  I would like to be able to stand in side and fool with the unit if it doesn't start ,or needs service . 
 It's very   Windy and cold  up there. 
 I've been dragging the genarator out side when we use it . 

Estragon

At my cabin the previous owners put the genshed several hundred feet from the cabin down a steep gully near shoreline. It kept the noise down, but it was a pain to get at, trees would fall on the overhead wire, and I wasn't wild about the idea of having 200gals of diesel in a tank near the lake.

Ended up building a shed next to the cabin out of 6x6 timbers with exhaust run in a trench out a bit so prevailing wind carries it away. The heavy timbers make it pretty quiet.

You can go pretty far with 120 or 240vac if you want to. Mine was wired with 8ga aluminum I think.

wellbuilt

 I never even considered running the wire overhead . 
  The pipes exhaust system sounds good though . 

wellbuilt

Thank you to every on for helping out . 
John

706jim

Reading here how a small gen won't run an inverter charger. I use a Honda EU1000 and use it to charge my battery bank through an old DR1524 inverter charger. This wonderful old unit has a dial to adjust the charger current allowing me to use inverter current at the same time the battery charges. Both at modest amounts of course.

oil pan 4

An automotive alternator rigged to generate the required voltage would be more efficient.
The alternator generates the power you need in 3 phase which takes 11% less engine torque compared to generating that much power in single phase. The alternator only produces the required voltage so no stepping down the voltage.
The only disadvantages are because of the low voltage DC they generate, so they have to be near the battery bank and they can only supply DC power.
When you generate 120v single phase power it has to be stepped down, rectified to DC and filtered to smooth out the rectification ripples. Another roughly 10% loss in efficiency.

jonr

My understanding is that the Honda inverter generators are also 3 phase.  And (I think), permanent magnet (no excitation losses).  So who knows how the final gallons/kwh would compare.

wellbuilt

Jim I think most inverters will adjust charger out put for a smaller genarator or less out put for less ah battery's. 
 As far as I know (witch is not very much) the genarator runs the loads wile the charger is charging the battery bank  ,if that made sense .my inverter is running backwards charging then runs forward to invert . 
    Just when I think I've figured something out I  I realize I don't know anything .

wellbuilt

Oil pan , 
i was thinking about building a battery charger, I have all the parts sitting here if it would work . 
 I have 2 Bomar 60 amp marine Altanators for 12 volt charging , a ample power marine regulater with 3 stage smart charging 6.5 Honda motor  and a 15000sf weld shop full of welders that work for beer .
 The regulator has two leads to run 2 alternators off one motor. 
 I don't rember if the regulator will charge at 24v or only 12 v 
 what do you think ?

oil pan 4

> @jonr said:
> My understanding is that the Honda inverter generators are also 3 phase.  And (I think), permanent magnet (no excitation losses).  So who knows how the final gallons/kwh would compare.

Fuel consumption versus load charts for these generators have been published.
I don't believe that they are permanent magnet. If they were then there would be extremely high eddy losses in the steel stator core and it would be more difficult to drive the engine at no and low load because the stator would be trying to develop full voltage that isn't going anywhere.

oil pan 4

> @wellbuilt said:
> Oil pan , 
> i was thinking about building a battery charger, I have all the parts sitting here if it would work . 
>  I have 2 Bomar 60 amp marine Altanators for 12 volt charging , a ample power marine regulater with 3 stage smart charging 6.5 Honda motor  and a 15000sf weld shop full of welders that work for beer .
>  The regulator has two leads to run 2 alternators off one motor. 
>  I don't rember if the regulator will charge at 24v or only 12 v 
>  what do you think ?

Those should work.
I have a 5.5hp Honda gx200 motor that drives my alternator welder. It will produce around 30 volts up to 100 amps while welding.
So the motor should be able to give you around 100 amps of 24v charging, no problem.
I just don't know anything about those particular alternators.
I know marine stuff favors 24v.
If you were going to use GM's ACdelco alternators or if that marine alternator is a clone I know the 10SI, 12SI and CS series alternators can be sold in 12 or 24v versions. Or converted from one voltage to the other if you know how to change a voltage regulator.
Just make sure you connect the voltage sense wire to the battery, not to the alternator.
This makes sure you get the correct voltage delivered to the battery, compensating for any voltage loss through the wires.

wellbuilt

wellbuilt

I have a unit like this one only older it's 12 volt I think . 
 They make a 24 volt Version , will have to dig it up in the am .
  I think the bomar  alternators are very costly . 
 I think the regulator in the pic will take 2 12vvolt units and bump them to 24 volt charging current