Sun Elec's Free Solar Panels

solarfanatic22

Hey all, I'm building a 12V off-grid system and been recently informed of Sun Elec's free solar panels. They were made by Sun Tech. All you have to pay is the shipping. Has anyone heard about this and is it a good choice?

solar_dave

solarfanatic22 said:

Hey all, I'm building a 12V off-grid system and been recently informed of Sun Elec's free solar panels. They were made by Sun Tech. All you have to pay is the shipping. Has anyone heard about this and is it a good choice?

Being used panels, I think I would want to look at them first.

BB.

Be very careful with these panels--They appear to have a "history"--Sold around 2007-2009 (I don't know if these are the same panels, but it sounds like they may be...):

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/341910-open-energy-34-watt-solar-tile-class-action-settlement/

http://www.solarpanelsettlement.com/faqs/

The lawsuit claims that the Solar Tiles are defective, do not generate the expected level of power, and create a potential fire hazard. The class action lawsuit does not involve any claims for personal injury arising out of the “defect” alleged by the Plaintiffs. The Defendants deny all claims alleged in the class action lawsuit. The Court has not determined who is right or whether either side “won.” Instead, both Plaintiffs and Defendants have agreed to settle to avoid the uncertainties, delays, and expenses of continuing the lawsuit.

-Bill

Sunelec

My name is John Kimball, I am the owner of Sun Electronics. I am the person who is offering 50,000 modules for FREE.

First, this is one of the best blogs and it does a wonderful service for people. It's fantastic for the promotion of safe, efficient PV utilization.

Second, if you want the entire story about these modules you can just call me. I have been researching and waiting on getting these 50,000 modules for over a year. It's not a simple or short story. There are many twists and turns.

So how did it come to pass that I'm able to give away 50,000 solar modules?

I found out about them in a meeting at the SolarWorld mfr. plant with the top two executives, Ardes Johnson head of sales and Marvin Talbert plant designer and manager. They are two of the smartest guys in the industry. My chief engineer and I were there to buy modules. As usual we asked about Grade B's, they didn't have any. They suggested I look into the these 50,000 modules. I do not believe they would have recommended us do that if they posed a serious fire risk.

So who is the seller here? I have been in the solar industry, 43 years, since 1973. I worked for U.S. Rep. George E. Brown (D-CA.) Chairman of the House Science and Technology Committee, AZ. Governor Bruce Babbitt's Arizona Solar Energy Commission, Photowatt one of the first PV mfr.'s, Kyocera Solar. Who would throw all this away just to give modules away that were fire hazards.

Here's the background in a nutshell, as I read it:

2 or 3 houses out of approx. 500 homes had problems. On approximately 3 individual sets of modules the installers did not properly "snap" the MC3 modules together. Over the years they began to separate due to wind, rain, snow, hail, and temperature changes. This created a short in those 3 connections. Not correctly tightening the interconnects between the modules caused sparks, smoke and possibly fire. No house was lost, no roof was destroyed and no one was hurt.

Lawyers saw a golden opportunity and initiated a class action law suit and the courts upheld it. Because of that, hundreds of homeowners had their entire systems taken down including all the inverters and other BOS. They were given brand new systems and 50,000 roof tiles were de-installed.

I have spent months consolidating all the documentation I could find and got considerable help from my staff, friends and attorneys.

We sent our NABCEP Certified Solar and Mechanical Engineer Lek Archaria, to inspect and test the roof tiles. A month later we sent our Solar Engineer and Purchasing Manager Louis Prophete to a different warehouse to do the same. We did not find a single burn mark, sign of overheating, such as discoloration or delamination. Every module we tested put out full rated power even though they were over 5 years old. The tested output matched the Suntech UL label on the back of the modules.

There are several solutions for people who don't want to make sure they have properly interconnected the modules (solidly snapped them into their lock positions). You can repair or fix this type of problem easily. Just call us ! we're always here to help.

I am more than willing to share all our research. I have posted lots of the documentation and numerous blogs on this. And, I will continue work on it. You can see photos of the modules and labels on my blog.

Finally, because the modules are used, we are telling everyone they should not be used on high voltage 300 volt grid connect systems but only for low, 12, 24, and 48 volt applications.

Thank you.

Sunelec

John again here,

We're are NOT selling them we are giving them away. I am putting up links again now to various important documents.

I would appreciate any contacts of non governmental organization NGO's or anyone who has a humanitarian agenda. Particularly in the Caribbean Basin. All suggestions and productive comments anyone might have to make this happen in the safest and quickest possible manner will be greatly appreciated.

John Kimball
Jk@sunelec.com

BB.

Thank you John.

-Bill

softdown

Wonderful communication from the owner John Kimball...thanks for that.

I called sunelec. They are open from M-F. So I carefully filled out their contact form and sent it with a detailed message. Was told I used the "wrong password" and my detailed message was erased. Arghh

I must say that I have tried to buy from sunelec in the past. So far....nothing but frustration. My message did not need to be erased. Web sites normally give additional opportunities if one makes a mistake on the password. Just my .02.

kamchuka

I'm curious to obtain some of these?

BB.

You will have to contact John/Sunelec directly... The are presently near the top of John's website (I am posting this information as a service to our community--free flow of information. Just remember the forum is hosted by Northern Arizona Wind & Sun and free to all--A competitor with SunElec ) -Bill :

http://sunelec.com/

softdown

Best guesses on the cost of shipping a pallet to?:
1) Drop shipped to a shipping/trucking center in Denver....not sure if they will do that.
2) Shipping to southern Colorado.....about 220 miles from the main hub in Denver. 110 miles from the closest good sized city....Pueblo, Colorado.

Origin is Miami, Florida....a long ways away.

These pallets will not be stackable at all. Without knowing the tile dimensions, I have no idea what the loaded pallet dimensions will be. The approx answers will tell me how many pallets would fit on what trailer.

Thanks in advance!

Photowhit

I'd guess #1 would be around $350-400, my over sized pallet of 20 solar panels from Sun 4-5 years go cost a little under $350 and had to be dropped with a lift gate truck. They arranged it. Since they aren't making money on the sale, I would expect them to make some money on setting up the shipping. It does cost them money to arrange this, though in a standard work-a-day business with things going out every day their cost would be minimal, but I'd count on $100 and be happy if less.

I forgot I need to call them, I'd love to get these in the schools for hands on science projects.

softdown

It might be $700 for one pallet from Miami. Florida is a looooooooong state south to north. Wonder how many tiles/pallet? How many square feet/pallet? % of bad diodes? Haw hard is it replace bad diodes? I got a couple with my last experiment with used panels.

Photowhit

Maybe, but the lift gate truck for my forklift battery was $100 on it's own. Fuel prices are actually cheaper currently and Denver is a common location. My reasoning that it would be in that neighborhood. You could ask a freight company, I think some even have online calculators.

My guess is most of them would be fine. most were pulled from working environments.

I suspect there will also be some legal affidavit to sign stating that you are aware of the past problems and assume all responsibility for any use or disposal. I had to for some panels I purchased that were part of a damaged warehouse lot. Half were fine 3-4 were scarred and 10 were broken. I actually gave them away using this website!

Photowhit

softdown said: Wonder how many tiles/pallet? How many square feet/pallet?

I think he stated there are roughly 50,000 roof tiles and 3,000 per 40 foot container. 24 standard pallets to a 40 foot container. 3000/24=125 I'd say that is a rough guess. He way want to sell then in container size lots...

solar_dave

You might get a quote from uship.com

softdown

His blog says they are not shipping container sized loads. I have a feeling there will just be too many hoops to jump through. I've already made well over 1/2 dozen calls and emails and still don't have the official form. They are having a big warehouse sale this week-end. He is going to be busy.

softdown

Photowhit said:

softdown said: Wonder how many tiles/pallet? How many square feet/pallet?

I think he stated there are roughly 50,000 roof tiles and 3,000 per 40 foot container. 24 standard pallets to a 40 foot container. 3000/24=125 I'd say that is a rough guess. He way want to sell then in container size lots...

I think he may have said 500,000 tiles and 500 pallets? Sounds like approximations.

Photowhit

softdown said:

His blog says they are not shipping container sized loads. I have a feeling there will just be too many hoops to jump through. I've already made well over 1/2 dozen calls and emails and still don't have the official form. They are having a big warehouse sale this week-end. He is going to be busy.

Yes, he's said he was still talking to his lawyer(s). I'm sure, as John has said, it will be a process. I suspect he would like to help others with these, if he can. I think he has done some aid with Haiti. (not with these, yet) He does a lot of business in the Caribbean. It creates some confusion at his site sometimes, since there are no or minimal tariffs in the islands.

Dave Angelini

People who can not afford to do it right the first time, often can't afford to fix the problems,
 and they end up with a a roof that leaks and does not produce energy.
Any one know if these are the panels that were a  major pain to wire? They sure would be in low voltage applications.  
 Are we sure this is helping?

Photowhit

I suspect they would be fine with a ground mount, Not on roof. Could likely do an open back design with 'nailers' for the screws. ... and better cooling.

I suspect John would rather they not go back on roofs. I would think his lawyers would require some sort of 'signing off' understanding the liability and/or past problems.

Dave Angelini

You really think these would be fine in a 24v or 12v like they have down there. What a pain to wire and maintain. I am sure they will fuse all the strings so there is not a fire.....
I just do not see the help this is for them. Looks like getting rid of more junk to people who do not know better.
My humble opinion!

softdown

First line in the disclaimer: "I understand these modules were recalled by the Consumer Protection Agency because of fire."

They are not to be used in high voltage grid connects. John has blamed the previous fires on improperly done MC3 connections. Those connections are the reason that I used to replace them with MC4s....which is a bit of a pain. Photowit came up with some MC3 combiners that mostly solved the issue.

Now....how are we supposed to know what to order without knowing what comes on a pallet? All we know is there is a "pallet of roofing tiles."

BB.

Wiring is going to be an issue... 34 watt panels vs 240-300+ watt panels--You are looking at almost 10x the number of interconnects. (and 10x the number of panels to physically mount). Simply 10x more labor and more things to (possibly) go wrong.

If you have a small system, perhaps these are a nice solution to you... But shipping small numbers of solar panels has always been difficult to do cost effectively. If you can pick them up directly (if they are set up for that)--Perhaps it is worth it for you.

-Bill

Dave Angelini

This is also just a pre-view, in my opinion, of what Tesla is going to go thru with all these (just snap together) low voltage modules.
on a roof at high temperatures. Someone eventually will do this correctly but as a pessimist I do seem to have more data than the optimists, at this time. 

I draw the line at dumping this stuff down in the Caribbean where I lived for months at a time on many of these islands anchored offshore for years. Maybe Mr Kimball with all of his experience will do the right thing.

Photowhit

BB. said:

Wiring is going to be an issue... 34 watt panels vs 240-300+ watt panels--You are looking at almost 10x the number of interconnects. (and 10x the number of panels to physically mount). Simply 10x more labor and more things to (possibly) go wrong.

While they are small wattage, they are 4.5v(nominal, and have connectors and could be strung for 48 volt charging, still considered "Low Voltage" designed as shingles there are 4  screws per tile. So a string of 12 or 15 x 34watts = 408 - 510 watts per string. You could do 800 watt array with no combiner box and a PWM charge controller for pretty darn cheap.

I suspect poor people would be happy to find a functional way to use the power. Off grid, and many places in Haiti have no functioning grid. Might setup multiple strings of 3, they have no 'Code' to worry about. Some of us old timers have had multiple strings, particularly at volt voltage, without a combiner box. 400 watts and a junk car battery and MSW inverter. I could price components and have functional AC for small items during the day for under $100. With a real battery it sounds a lot like my early sailboat and van systems.

softdown

Of course all off gridders have their printer and scanner ready to go......for that once/year occasion. At least they didn't ask for a fax machine. I don't know if I want to try to get my printer/scanner working since the move, getting technology to work again is often nightmarish.

A lot of us went off the grid wanting to get away from persistent technological nightmares.

Photowhit

softdown said:

Of course all off gridders have their printer and scanner ready to go......for that once/year occasion. At least they didn't ask for a fax machine. I don't know if I want to try to get my printer/scanner working since the move, getting technology to work again is often nightmarish.

A lot of us went off the grid wanting to get away from persistent technological nightmares.

If this is in reference to an agreement that you must sign and return. Often a library will have what's needed at little or no expense, other than travel. I'm 13 miles through the woods or 22 miles via pavement from my local library. It should be expected...

mike95490

I've gotten 2 versions of the release letter, each more comprehensive than the others,  No idea of how many on a pallet, or what 100 of them in a box would cost.  And the weekend moving sale.

WaterWheel

I spoke with John Kimball at sunelec.com about these panels.      I asked about how many panels per pallet and he said that since they all needed to be restacked he could put as many per pallet as needed.     Considering the panel dimensions and the fact that they can slide on each other I suspect a full pallet would hold about 120 panels.

He said there were 2 releases that must be signed, one states that the panels will never be sold.     His website shows that they are moving to a new warehouse.      here is a page from his website.  http://sunelec.com/#tab-attribute 

Additional research into the factory recall shows that the O-rings in the connectors were probably the problem and replacement of the O-rings made the panels much more reliable. 

Using my broker and assuming a 500 lb weight (class 150)  delivery from Miami to my business in N. GA is about $200.      Assuming 100 of the 120 panels shipped were good then the 34 watt panels after O-ring replacement will cost about $3 ea.

Photowhit

WaterWheel said:

Assuming 100 of the 120 panels shipped were good then the 34 watt panels after O-ring replacement will cost about $3 ea.

Wow, I use to sell 'O' rings for gas systems on shotguns, we use to joke when we sold 1 for $5 that we made $4.97! I suspect you can find 'O' rings cheaper. I had read it was the MP3 connectors... I don't think MP3 connectors have 'O' rings... Well we all hear stuff.

softdown

Yes....the blame has been laid upon improperly connected MC3 connectors.....by John Kimball himself. The fault of the MC3 connector is that a fairly small tug will disconnect them. I always put clamshells over MC3 connections. Thanks to Photowhit for showing me, and pretty well giving me, an extra batch of clamshells that make the MC3 a viable connection. Replacing MC3s with MC4s involves a lot of small parts.

MC3 clamshells are relatively inexpensive. Good luck with finding cheap shipping on the super lightweight items... Our host does not carry them.

MC4s always use o-rings, MC3s do not.....to the best of my knowledge.

Due to the extreme distance from Miami to here, I am going to pass. It will be interesting to see how others may fare. I don't think loosely stacked, then wrapped, glass tiles will ship at a very economic rate. Unless, perhaps, the conditions are "free stuff...buyer takes risks." It almost has to ship that way I would think.