Electromagnet AC or DC?

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
in In the Weeds--Member's Choice #1
Can't find any info anywhere.
Can any smarties decipher the info plate at all?
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Auction ad said 240 volts. Owner said he never used it.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,706 admin
    edited September 6 #3
    Probably 230 VDC from what I can find quickly... There are also 24 VDC coil versions too (light duty). A "small" 230 VDC takes 12 amps (or ~3kWatts)....
    Example of data sheets:
    https://www.genscoequip.com/admin/products/attachments/canmag_2025_brochure.pdf
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Ok thanks! I don’t know of any realistic way to supply 3 kW of DC power unless I buy an AC to DC converter. 

    Since the strength of an electromagnet is dependent upon the supplied current, I would be inclined to suspect that more current would make a stronger magnet. The positive wire has a diameter of .427 including the insulation. Guessing that is about 1awg wire based on hazy memories. 

    I would think the wire diameter would indicate the desired supply of current. Running on DC throws a wrench in what I can easily do. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Finding a 220/240 VAC to 230 VDC converter is proving quite difficult. Not the first time I have tried.

    It does seem that a 5000 watt converter should be used to reliably run 3000 watts. 

    Anybody know of an affordable option? 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Thinking a DC step up transformer should be doable. Run it off of batteries. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Unit is ~ 38” wide. Currently available and similar unit requires: 18 amps at 230 DC.  6 KW/6000 watts. 

    Tall order for something I thought would be fun. Cost ~ $350. I did a small electromagnet for Show & Tell when 8-9 years old. Hence the interest. 

    Could serial nineteen 12 volt batteries. Yikes. At least the higher voltage allows for smaller wires - I believe. But that 6000 watt figure may indicate otherwise? 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    19 batteries is not a good solution. Anybody know of a DC step up transformer that goes up to 230 volts? 

    They all seem to be AC or DC to AC or, in the case of battery chargers, AC to DC.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,706 admin
    #9
    Technically, all transformers are AC... There are no DC transformers. Need the "alternating current" to create the constantly changing magnetic fields to transfer energy in a Transformer.

    https://www.explainthatstuff.com/transformers.html

    There are hydraulic and diesel powered gensets. Also rectifiers for AC to DC conversion. None of this stuff looks cheap, unless you can find at auction/abandoned/etc.

    Just an idea of rebuilt/used magnet prices:

    https://www.genscoequip.com/used-scrap-demolition-equipment

    REBUILT SCRAP HANDLING MAGNET


     

    CANMAG Cast Steel Scrap Magnet
    Model LMR170

    • 67" Diameter Cast Steel Shell
    • 82 Cold amps at 230V DC
    • Requires min. 20kW generator
    • Weight: 7,800 lbs (aluminum coil)
    • 8 mo. Warranty
    • c/w new heavy chains, connectors
      Price: $ 22,000 USD

    NATIONAL COIL Cast Steel Scrap Magnet
    Model Millmaster 68D

    • 68" Diameter Cast Steel Shell
    • 73.3 Cold amps at 230V DC
    • Requires min. 20kW generator
    • Weight: 10,350 lbs (copper coil)
    • 6 mo. Warranty
    • c/w new heavy chains, connectors
      Price: $ 28,000 USD

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      Complete with 24-inch blades
      10 HP 230/460/575-volt motor, 3 phase (Single phase optional)
      Capacity Rounds: 2” mild steel rounds
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              Used Skidsteer Scrap Grapple


               
              Used (2024) Skid Steer Scrap Grapple c/w dual hydarulic arms, lower bucket with bolt on blade, 73" wide x 34" depth - 24" high.  Comes with quick attach, hyd. hoses and fittings
              Price: $5,600 USD + shipping

                       
                 
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                Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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              • softdown
                softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
                #10
                I usually hope that BB will do his best to solve an issue. Thanks!!!

                My unit needs 18 amps at 230VDC. Quoted data below indicates a need for an ~ 5000 watt generator. That isn’t a problem. But turning the AC into DC is currently a pretty big problem. 
                • "82 Cold amps at 230V DC
                • Requires min. 20kW generator”
                Their prices may be on the high end. Judging by this:"Used (2024) Skid Steer Scrap Grapple c/w dual hydarulic arms, lower bucket with bolt on blade, 73" wide x 34" depth - 24" high.  Comes with quick attach, hyd. hoses and fittings
                Price: $5,600 USD + shipping”


                Still good to see that my magnet may have a value in the low thousands - with some additional parts. Made by Square D a long time ago. I would bet that it has copper windings - not aluminum. 

                So I need a large rectifier. Sounds like a good start. 
                First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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              • softdown
                softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
                #11
                Then we have this: 

                "AC to DC Calculator

                To convert ac voltage to dc voltage enter value in given field by using our ac to dc converter calculator.

                Select Unit (AC / DC): 
                                 AC                 DC             
                Enter DC Current: 230
                 
                AC Current 361.6352  volts"

                That is three phase voltage. A three phase generator is expensive. Then I also need the large rectifier as well. Sigh. 
                First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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              • manzanita2
                manzanita2 Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭✭
                #12
                You're already finding more info than i did. I did find a list of new smaller magnets:
                They have a 20" dia magnet that takes 900 watts at 90voltsDC so about 10amps?
                They say it weighs 530 pounds and can lift 10,500 pounds. Do you have anything that can lift that much weight high enough off the ground to be useful? Sounds dangerous. I've seen people tip small cranes over being careless.

                Think carefully about your DC-DC conversions. Assuming 100% efficiency,  It would take 100amps @10 volts to create 10amps @ 100 volts. So huge current demands at lower voltages.

                Batteries could be dangerous. You won't know when they are too weak to keep holding your weight! Besides, batteries don't like uncontrolled high current discharges. Any weakness could produce a catastrophic failure. Then you'd have a falling weight and an exploding battery. Be careful!
                Sol-Ark 12, 3 Pytes V5 100ah batteries, currently six REC 420w panels installed. Ten more panels waiting to be installed.
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              • manzanita2
                manzanita2 Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭✭
                #13
                Hah. Looking at downstroke balers brings back memories. We were just creating 700 lb bales of cardboard though. Getting rid of the empty boxes was the easy part.  :)
                Sol-Ark 12, 3 Pytes V5 100ah batteries, currently six REC 420w panels installed. Ten more panels waiting to be installed.
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              • littleharbor2
                littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,165 ✭✭✭✭✭
                #14
                This reminds me of that episode of Breaking Bad where they use that large magnet to destroy the laptop that's inside the evidence room.

                2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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              • softdown
                softdown Solar Expert Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭✭
                #15
                manzanita2 said:
                You're already finding more info than i did. I did find a list of new smaller magnets:
                They have a 20" dia magnet that takes 900 watts at 90voltsDC so about 10amps?
                They say it weighs 530 pounds and can lift 10,500 pounds. Do you have anything that can lift that much weight high enough off the ground to be useful? Sounds dangerous. I've seen people tip small cranes over being careless.

                Think carefully about your DC-DC conversions. Assuming 100% efficiency,  It would take 100amps @10 volts to create 10amps @ 100 volts. So huge current demands at lower voltages.

                Batteries could be dangerous. You won't know when they are too weak to keep holding your weight! Besides, batteries don't like uncontrolled high current discharges. Any weakness could produce a catastrophic failure. Then you'd have a falling weight and an exploding battery. Be careful!
                Good point about weakened batteries losing their grip. 
                First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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              • Miller_Ranch
                Miller_Ranch Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭
                #16
                Yeah Bitch Magnets GIFs Tenor
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