Never heard of this lithium battery formulation

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Calling itself "lithium iron phosphate". Again - lithium technology is not my forte. Just a dozen, or so, podcasts.
https://fourvolt.com/products/lifepo4-battery
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Also called lithium ferrous phosphate, or LFP. This is the chemistry that most of us on the forum, who have lithium banks, use. This LFP drop in replacement for AGM has a very good price, but series connection is not recommended so would't be a good choice for systems above 12 volts. This type of lithium battery is kind of dummy proof because it protects itself from over and under voltage, high current, and low and high temperature.

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,639 admin
    #3
    In general, LFP batteries are "safer" than other Li Ion rechargeable chemistries if over charged/over discharged (they don't explode and catch fire). And they do have a different (lower) charging/discharged voltage per cell.

    The "closer" you run the limits, the more "critical" having a BMS (battery management system) is to prevent one cell (or paralleled group of cells) from "hitting the high/low" limit and trashing the cell(s).

    As far as I know (not a lot), all the Li Ion rechargeable chemistries have very low self discharge/leakage current and need manual (you) to check/manage cell balance, or get a BMS that alarms (and possibly balance) cells.

    Lead Acid batteries (flooded cell), we can "Equalize" a battery bank to "overcharge" the high State of Charge cells, and the "overcharge/leakage" current brings up the lower SoC (weaker cells).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    If they can't be wired in series they are presently useless for most of us. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,639 admin
    #5
    You can wire the LFP cells in series/parallel as needed. It is the BMS that has to be designed for the overall operating voltage.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,917 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Health and welfare on softdown ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020 #7
    Many companies producing LFP drop in replacement batteries support series connections, this one, Fourvolt, does not. Here's the FAQ page from their website.

    https://fourvolt.com/pages/faq
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,917 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Yep! In the store here, about 70 choices.
    https://www.solar-electric.com/residential/batteries-battery-storage.html?nav_battery_type=537
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Dave Angelini said:
    Health and welfare on softdown ;)
    You like to speak in code. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,917 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Not really. It does have to be fun for me to play. Maybe an oximeter reading, you are at altitude ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    How cute - 16 years of Ingsoc psy-ops. Having a challenge finding protocol for membership deletion. Little help please? 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,639 admin
    #12
    Softdown,

    I am very sorry if I went too far.

    Sincerely,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    softdown said:
    How cute - 16 years of Ingsoc psy-ops. Having a challenge finding protocol for membership deletion. Little help please? 

    Hey, Softdown:
    You OK?
    Marc
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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