Distilled water for battery’s ?

wellbuilt
wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Is there a replacement for distilled water , last week it was easy to come by next week maybe not so much .
  Could you use filtered rain water ? 
  Maybe make a distiller ? 
Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Filtered rain water ought to work pretty well. That's what D Angelini uses I think. I have some extra but nobody here close. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 521 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Lake Superior water. Has worked well for me since 1994.
    Island cottage solar system with appriximately 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing due south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter which has performed flawlessly since 1994. Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller four 467A-h AGM batteries. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge 1/4hp GSW piston pump. My 31st year.
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  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    O ok cool , that is a good thing to know . 
     I had a nightmare last night that I was using well water and all the stuff that build up in my coffee pot was bubbling out the top of my battery bank , the stock market crash / virus thinking is putting me on edge . 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    wellbuilt said:
      Maybe make a distiller ? 
    If you have a canner, you should be able to make a distiller pretty easy. Here's a video, I might have used a SS adapter for replacing the vent pipe, thing you could get it for pipe thread (their 1/4 pipe thread on Mirro and AA's, not sure about Presto as they use a through fitting on some of theirs) and some food grade silicon tubing, should handle the heat.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW-SY1rSqQw

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    That distiller was what I was thinking about or something like the still in the swamp on the mash tv series . Cool 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    de-ionized water works if its done right.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • clockmanfran
    clockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭✭
    #8
    +1

    Keep the Iron's out of your battery water.

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (12 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 years) .... 14kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    My surettes failed after 8 years on rain water
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    The water from a dehumidifier is de-mineralized.  Of course, it's a little refrigerator mechanism, so a power hog.  My water source is a 1 gallon Sears distiller run as a dump load (like today).  My new Surrette S550's use very little water, most of it's being used in a humidifier to moisten up the house air (wood heat).

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,626 admin
    #11
    From the Trojan user manual, a list of of limits to contaminantes, {Page 15, Table 4):

    https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TrojanBattery_UsersGuide.pdf

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020 #12
    706jim said:
    Lake Superior water. Has worked well for me since 1994.
    I'd have to know the pH at the least. Was not easy to find anything concrete. This turned up: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0380133083719143 Why do the tributaries have acidic water? 
    it is unusual for natural water in N America to be acidic. Water usually has an alkaline pH due to proximity to salts of calcium, magnesium and sodium absorbed from rocks and gravel - for starters. 

    I had a client with acidic well water that contained easily measurable phosphates. This confounded a large group of leading saltwater reef keepers. Some of us decided a probably cause was proximity to a septic system. The client moved. 

    Some areas have acid rain due to industrial pollution or a high concentration of motorized traffic. I'd much rather use acidic battery top off water than alkaline. Neutral pH is what we seek - 7.0 with no dissolved solids or organic compounds. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,907 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
    The collection source for rainwater probably needs to be metal. Any petroleum based roofing would be suspect. At the minimum any collection source should be professionally measured for contaminants. At least once and probably every 5 years.

     A Britta or similar filter is good insurance but most all rainwater out of a tank that has set for a couple days or more is going to be good. Connection piping needs to be non metal. 

    I have never noticed anything in negative from using rain in batteries for my home and clients in over 30 years. We still run a 48V FLA as insurance to our lithium based electronic batteries. They both are nice to have.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,626 admin
    #14
    Deionizer water filters are out there, some/many/all for battery filling can include a go/no go light (probably measures the water resistivity--Filter exhausted, start getting more minerals in the water):

    https://www.sbsbattery.com/products-services/by-product/battery-maintenance-safety-accessories/water-deionizer.html
    https://solusgrp.com/water-deionizing-system.html

    Not finding much in the way of prices--The few out there appear to be all over the place. The one above is probably in the $400 +/- $20 range... Although have seen prices from $300-$1,100 for similar units with a quick browsing of the web.

    Supposed to be good for 600 Gallons, but depends on the "feed water". 100 ppm TDS is 600 Gallons. If your water has higher TDS, then life goes down (can be 250 gallons or less with--Probably something like 300 TDS and 200 gallon capacity ratio).

    A bit more technical:

    https://www.total-water.com/blog/quality-vs-quantity-use-mixed-bed-deionizer/

    Does not sound like a cheap solution--And upstream filters prior to the deionizer bed filter is, most likely, needed.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Some areas like West Texas may have TDS of 1000. We called it liquid rock. TDS varies, I have a vague memory of ~700 from a previous well. Or was that Denver water? Old memories for sure. 

    De-ionization is in for a short life when the source water has a lot of minerals. 

    You can test for mineralization by simply filling a glass with water and letting it evaporate. Any white chalky substance remaining at the bottom of a dry glass is minerals that you do not want in your batteries. Mostly calcium, calcium is highly abundant in rocks. The earth is a big rock with a lot of water. 

    https://sciencing.com/eight-abundant-elements-earths-crust-8120554.html

    Calcium: Most Abundant Alkaline Earth Metal in Earth’s Crust

    Followed by sodium, potassium and magnesium.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Thank for the information it’s definitely a good thing to know
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    706jim said:
    Lake Superior water. Has worked well for me since 1994.
    Hmmm, alkaline water would lower SG which likely makes batteries last  longer since higher SG batteries last a shorter period. Something to think about anyway.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,907 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Batteries last longer when they are properly charged. Maintenance is important but undercharging is almost always the problem.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020 #19
    Of course.

    706jim got 19 years out of basic deep cycle batteries. Something unique was going on. 

    I replaced a couple 9 year old 8D's when they showed 12.2 morning volts while the rest showed 12.5. The change was almost immeasurable. Tester said they were still "good" and showed 53% healthy. I console myself by telling myself they would have gone bad soon. 

    The way I see it - we never quit learning about batteries. Especially will all the newer technologies.

    Here is a great test of different 18650 lithium batteries. The Chinese manufacturers claim 3 times the energy while delivering less than half the energy of the others. Or - about 12% of their stated claim. China's manufacturing reputation is sketchy though very good products can, of course, be made there.  The Japanese and Korean cells delivered on their promises within 2%. The Chinese missed by 88%!   


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMZuHMlRw_0

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • FoldPV
    FoldPV Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #20
    Hi Folks!
    Distilled water, unlike demineralized water, is purer, especially at a microbiological level (and is more expensive).
    For batteries, demineralized water should be fine, which, first treated by reverse osmosis and then further filtered through resins, should guarantee a sufficient degree of purity (from minerals).  B)
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Why use water that has maybe 99% of mineral removed when distilled water costs the same? At least it does in this area. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • FoldPV
    FoldPV Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #22
    softdown said:
    99% of mineral removed 

    I'm agree with you, buying distilled water is the best thing to do!
    But I think the thread goal is a practical solution instead of a fast commercial transaction...
    So, what about using Water from your Air Conditioner ? Is it even worse?
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