Beverage storage area is the coldest it has ever been - 35F

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭
in In the Weeds--Member's Choice #1
Had a lot of cloudy weather compared to the norm. As a result my very large beverage storage area is currently sitting at 35F. 

With normal weather it usually sits in the low 40s due to a lot of heat being generated by the extensive passive solar glass. But passive solar becomes a liability in cloudy weather. It seems that three layers of plastic may have an r-value of 1 - if that. 

Had much colder weather a month ago. That room only dipped to 37F. It stayed warmer because passive solar peaks in December and early January.

Beverage storage likely exceeds 800 cans and bottles. Almost half are plastic and would survive a mild freeze. Aluminum cans often have no resistance to freezing and breaking. The steel cans are an unknown - have a  lot of pineapple juice in steel cans. 

Here is my weather prediction for the next few weeks. Should bear a relation to unfolding events. https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/alamosa-east/81101/daily-weather-forecast/2274131

The temperatures are very mild for this area but the cloud cover is unusually prevalent for this alpine desert environ. 

Considering emptying a 4 gallon propane tank and heater to bring up the ambient temperature by a lot. I'd guess that four gallons of propane would run a smallish propane heater for 4-5 days. That wing is 1200 sq. ft and well insulated aside from the solar glass covering the south side. I buy propane off season at $1.19/gallon so $5 worth of propane is inconsequential. 

Thing is - I've never had to heat that wing to keep it from freezing. Not even close. Where is that global warming that I hear about 20 times/day?

It would look terrible but I could also paint the steel roof, over the beverage storage, black. But that would degrade the beverage quality in warmer months.

It would appear that breaking out 4 gallons of propane heat is in order. Would be interesting to see the net temperature result. 
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    My frosty type of beverages prefer 34F so keep on keeping on. That's all I've got say on this subject :)
    I wonder about the long term prognosis of pineapple juice on steel - even coated, it would seem that lifespan would be limited by the organic acidity.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Yes - that is what Dole packages their pineapple juice in. I would hope for a warning if a legit health risk existed. I'm sure some people don't even know about supposed exp. dates. They were not even required until the 90's. There are youtube vids of canned goods being found after 60 years in bunkers and consumed in spite of darkening and ingredient separation. I "half laugh/half cry" at the millennials commiserating about the delicate changes in the taste of their peanut butter after a short time. A lot of them are allergic to all nuts, especially peanut butter.  https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/f069py/peanut_butter_is_amazing/

    None of these are alcoholic beverages by the way. Though I recently started drinking 12 ounces/day of 5% tooty fruity type drink, 

    I drink pineapple juice for Vit C and it really seems to keep more of my hair from falling out. Orange juice gets converted to belly fat in my experience. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Hard to tell what constitutes a legit concern nowadays, but a moving target is harder to hit.
    About 10 years ago Hormel published FAQs about their well known canned products. Being an old company, they maintain a stock of old products spanning more than my lifetime. In addressing "longevity of current canned products" there was a concerted effort to dance between "Best By", "Palatable" and "Safe to Consume." Essentially, they explained that their products would still be safe to eat far, far beyond the point where you would like to. Degradation in color and texture would keep all but the most adventurous from partaking  :D   They tossed around numbers like 20-40 years.
    So, after the zombie apocalypse, seek out Hormel because they seem to be robust in their use of heavy duty preservatives :D

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Hah - I think it has more to due with the lack of oxygen to allow for bacterial growth. Don't buy dented cans for prepping. The tiniest leak could mean an exploding can given sufficient time. 

    I don't think I've seen many canned goods go completely bad. Seen plenty of other stuff go bad. Had some canned, dried eggs that blew up the can so those went bad. No big surprise there. 

    I'm a prepper but rarely recommend it. Too many pitfalls. Food going bad is one of a hundred. Solar batteries are another issue. Now we have lovely ethanol/cornpisswater in our gasoline. Then the electronics in our cars that go bye-bye if you make direct eye contact. Etc. 

    Stuff used to be made to last. Now it is made to disintegrate. No way that modern cars last 50 years. The plastic around chemicals and pressure and sunlight will crumble into dust in less than 25 years. 

    Don't get me started on Ingsoc, I mean Windows 10. Finest piece of surveillance. Ever. Ingsoc can control it easier than I can. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    softdown said:
    . 

    I'm a prepper but rarely recommend it. Too many pitfalls. Food going bad is one of a hundred. Solar batteries are another issue.

    I  disagree. Being prepared for a wide variety of calamities is important, and I suggest that everyone do so. A reasonable supply of food and water is only a good start.  I have been actively pursuing it for many years.
    Developing the required skillsets and mindset for reasonable self-sufficiency takes as many years as developing a garden, orchard and livestock that thrives. Small animal husbandry is hard work and an art unto itself. Living around people with good core values helps tremendously. Sharing the load for survival is as old as mankind.


    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    I found a simple kerosene lamp was the best source of heat for our pumpshed and greenhouse.  I tried the Mr Buddy propane heater and the pilot light was too little, and the burner was too much.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Marc Kurth said:
    softdown said:
    . 

    I'm a prepper but rarely recommend it. Too many pitfalls. Food going bad is one of a hundred. Solar batteries are another issue.

    I  disagree. Being prepared for a wide variety of calamities is important, and I suggest that everyone do so. A reasonable supply of food and water is only a good start.  I have been actively pursuing it for many years.
    Developing the required skillsets and mindset for reasonable self-sufficiency takes as many years as developing a garden, orchard and livestock that thrives. Small animal husbandry is hard work and an art unto itself. Living around people with good core values helps tremendously. Sharing the load for survival is as old as mankind.


    Totally true, personally I don't consider myself a prepper by any stretch of the imagination, I am however almost self sufficient from a food standpoint, but it's extremely difficult to cover all needs, trading what one has with others who need what you have, is the currency of barter.
    My next venture is aquaponics, growing vegetables using fish to provide the fertilizer in a closed loop using less water than conventional farming, for its my belief that the greatest threat to mankind is a shortage, or overabundance of fresh water due to climate change. Last year we had a drought followed by flooding, then drought again, the rice crop was ruined over the course of a week of torrential rainfall. The annual total was normal but it was all in a week as opposed to months. Beneath the 5 feet of water pictured below was the rice crop.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    mike95490 said:
    I found a simple kerosene lamp was the best source of heat for our pumpshed and greenhouse.  I tried the Mr Buddy propane heater and the pilot light was too little, and the burner was too much.
    They badly need a lower setting. How hard can three settings be? 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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