Generator charging battery

parbob1parbob1 Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
Battery charge time with Generator is my aprox math correct. 
The battery manufacturer says 
Voltage Setting 48 VDaily Charge (Absorption) 58.1Equalize 61.9Float 54.0
my Honda generator is limited to 21amps At 240V.  hooked up to SW4048 to charge batteries

  I have 48V X 470AH =22,560 watts and if I run the batteries to 70%  I have to replace 6,800 watts
 ( these are net number that the ComBox shows going into and out of batteries)
  So if my Generator is putting 56 volts and 2,200 watts per hour back to my battery bank then it should take about 3 hours to recharge my bank?

The ComBox and the battery monitor are not getting along,  the BM is showing 95% SOC however the voltage is 48.1 and the hydrometer shows 60%-70% .    I have disconnected the BM and going to fully recharge batteries then reconnect BM and adjust. Thanks Bob 
 SW Conext 4048
 AGS
Combox & Conext battery monitor 
16- 235 6V batteries 
Honda 6500 gen

Comments

  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi Bob,
    Do you mean the SW charger voltage setting is 56 volts? If so, it will take much longer to charge the bank. I recommend setting to your stated absorb voltage of 58.1V. That way you will get the maximum current until the battery bank reaches absorb voltage. The charging time will be extended after the battery bank reaches absorb voltage because batteries will take less and less amperage as the batteries approach 100%. So foe example, discharging to 70% over 3 hours may take 4 to 4.5 hours to recharge. Also, I believe most battery monitors reset to 100% only when the absorb cycle completes.

    Rick
    3600W PV, MNE175DR-TR epanel modified, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 54.4V 195AH LiFePO4 no BMS, 4500W genset.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do you have an effiency number or Power Factor  (PF) for the charger side of the SW ?  That will influence what the generator can drive.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • parbob1parbob1 Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
    Rick.  The SW is set at 58.1 bulk and 58.1 absorption for 180 min.    I think that because my batteries are 13c temp the SW is limiting the charge.. 
    I equalized the batt bank then hooked up battery monitor. Then ran a charge cycle..  I should have taken hydrometer reading before hookin up BM.   .
    todays project check hydrometer readings .. if needed recharge BB to full and then add BM and change setting on BM .. bob
     SW Conext 4048
     AGS
    Combox & Conext battery monitor 
    16- 235 6V batteries 
    Honda 6500 gen
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe worth noting that at 13°C the bank will need a higher voltage absorb for proper charging.  If the charger is set up to use a remote temp sensor, it should hold maybe 60-61v (rough guess) in absorb.  If not, you may want to work our the compensated voltage and adjust manually.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,833 admin
    The equation for calculating the actual charging voltage is:
    • (Batt Temp - Std Temp) * compensation value * number of cells = Voltage offset 
    For example of a typical flooded cell  lead acid battery bank:
    • (13C batt temp - 25C standard temp) * -0.005 volts / C / Cell * 24 cells (48 volt bank) = +1.44 volt increase over Vbatt-std-chrg
    • 59 Volt charge (FLA @ 25C) + 1.44 volts offset = 60.44 volts actual charging voltage
    Note, many AC inverters have a 15/30/60 VDC limit on input voltage... You have to look around for AC inverters that are at least 16/32/64 VDC or so maximum input voltage (12 volt / 24 volt / 48 volt battery banks).

    For our friends in the north, shutting down AC inverters during charging can be an issue in winter.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • parbob1parbob1 Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
    Yes today went from good to bad. The Inverter compensated for the 13-15c battery temp and the absorption voltage was 59.6.   My hydrometer showed a 1.25 adv reading then I hooked up the BM
    ..  the Battery temp sensor then read 50c . When in fact the batteries were 14c
     attached 2 device reports. If you look you will see to different tempature from the same BTS

    .  Is anyone fluent in Schneider ComBox?
    My emails/tech support or Schneider go unanswered and  the people who sold me the system are unable to help, ( but very good about answering my calls or email).   I am having lots of issues with my Schneider equipment 

     SW Conext 4048
     AGS
    Combox & Conext battery monitor 
    16- 235 6V batteries 
    Honda 6500 gen
  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    parbob1 said:


      I have 48V X 470AH =22,560 watts and if I run the batteries to 70%  I have to replace 6,800 watts
     
    heres the problem I am seeing lately...DC amps and AC amps can not be used interchangeably ....they are different

    when you are using 1 amp AC.....you are probably using 2 or 3 amps dc

    also, you cannot use wattage for how long a battery will last.....you have to use amps....that is why renewable energy batteries are expressed in AH  amp hours....or how long a battery will last drawing 1 amp an hour.....it wont work saying you are drawing 1 watt an hour

    so to figure out how long it will take to fully charge your batteries you need to know what the  charge amperage is

    there is a formula to figure this out...dont remember where it is...but I can tell you if you have 470 AH of 48v battery bank...it will take 4-6 hours to charge at 30 amps...at 90 amps...which is what I think the conext SW 4048 will charge at with a generator supply power....then it will take maybe 3 hours to get to float.....unless you set your absorb time lower, default should be 180 minutes

    I dont recommend charging at 90 amps....it will destroy a battery if it is done all the time
    batteries like to take a charge slow....and in return the battery power will last longer also the battery will last longer

    when needed, as a battery starts to sulfate, make sure to do a real good equalize charge with higher voltage and higher amperage...this is to break up the sulphation
  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    the other thing is....your generator may be limited to 21 amps....AC

    the inverters built in charger will put out 90 amps ...DC

    as I said above...the 2 are completely different as long as you have your generator sized right for your inverter....you should size the gen larger than your inverter size to allow for surge wattage

    the 4048 should have a 6000 to 9000 watt generator...any smaller and you run into surge problems

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10 #10
    t00ls said:
    ........................t he 4048 should have a 6000 to 9000 watt generator...any smaller and you run into surge problems

    Well, that all depends on if you configure things properly.   While re-jucing my NiFe bank over 9 days, I ran nights on a eu2000 and a autotransformer.  Never a bit of problem.  And my regular generator is only 3kw.   When you program it properly, it just works !
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • parbob1parbob1 Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭

    after watching manny videos on ComBox and other Schneider products and accessories i see one common thread....
    no one use the ComBox to set perimeters.. they all us Conext  SCP.  You watch the video and the ComBox sits on the wall and goes unmentioned.. all you here is “push this button three time to home screen” on the SCP.
    the set up menus on the ComBox and the owner’s manual are not the same ..many setting have like terms but are located in different set up section.
    For example my BTS is reading two different temps. ( see earlier post). 
    Thinking the problem is the “default temp”.  I looked through owner’s manual, and it is not found )  and the ComBox will not let me change setting 
    I hoping someone has Schneider products and can help..  as most of you who have commented have other manufactures equipment... maybe I picked the wrong horse.  

     SW Conext 4048
     AGS
    Combox & Conext battery monitor 
    16- 235 6V batteries 
    Honda 6500 gen
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How many temperature sensors are being  used? Rationale being, there may be conflict between more than one reading. One sensor should share the information via Xanbus to al other devices.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • parbob1parbob1 Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
    mcgivor , I am Only using 1 BTS.  According to owner manual “ if more than on BTS is used.. the higher temperature will be used”.  
    FYI I have updated the firmware on all of my devices, the AGS is removed from the system for the time being.
    If the BTS is plugged into inverter I get the above results.   If the BTS is plugged in BM the temp reads 70c and the whole system shuts down.    I have tried two different BTS and get same results 
    thanks Bob
     SW Conext 4048
     AGS
    Combox & Conext battery monitor 
    16- 235 6V batteries 
    Honda 6500 gen
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1) are all the proper xanbus terminations installed at both ends of the bus ?

    2) i routinely use both combox & SCP to make measurements and change settings. both work well, and I've not seen any negative interactions in the system.

    If I'm running the generator, I use the SCP to ramp up the charging amps as the generator warms up.   If I'm in my office, I use the combox over wi-fi to adjust any settings.  I have summer and winter settings that I alternate between.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • parbob1parbob1 Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
    Mike, yes  all the proper xanbus terminations installed., and thank you it’s good to hear system will work properly. Bob 
     SW Conext 4048
     AGS
    Combox & Conext battery monitor 
    16- 235 6V batteries 
    Honda 6500 gen
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Might be worth checking the RTS jacks.  A bit of crud/corrosion or bent jack conductor can do this sort of thing, and in my experience  phone and ethernet type jack connections are prone to this.  I've seen some pretty high-tech system problems eventually solved with a Q-tip and contact cleaner.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • parbob1parbob1 Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
    Cleaned all of the jacks and switched positions same outcome.  I’ve asked for a replacement BM
     SW Conext 4048
     AGS
    Combox & Conext battery monitor 
    16- 235 6V batteries 
    Honda 6500 gen
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