Have OLED TVs become economic for the off gridder yet?

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I was hyped on OLED technology well over a year ago. At that time OLED television sets costs a lot more. At least double. They are much more energy efficient while delivering a superior picture in some respects. 

Anyone have current data on, say ~50" sets?  My 2017 52" LED Vizio TV is a significant user of energy. 
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2019 #2
    By economic I meant that the energy savings pay for the cost difference. We are not there yet. 55" OLEDs still cost at least $1149 - for a 2018 set. I'll be waiting a few years to see them for ~$500 I'll bet. 
    Here is a 77" model for $5450: https://www.costco.com/LG-77"-Class-(76.7"-Diag.)-4K-Ultra-HD-OLED-TV.product.100488956.html
    Edit - link not working but facts still stand.

    Amazon offers no OLED TVs smaller than 55". Bit odd. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,634 admin
    #3
    Can get a 6" OLED "TV":

    https://androidresult.com/worlds-first-dynamic-oled-screen-in-samsung-galaxy-s10-series/
    *Default resolution is Full HD+ and can be changed to Quad HD+ in Settings.
    *Model and color availability may depend on country or carrier.
    WORLD’S FIRST DYNAMIC OLED SCREEN
    Samsung’s displays have been the in the business for years now and with the Galaxy S10, they’ve taken their game to a whole new level. The display on the S10 is the world’s first dynamic OLED display and also has the first HDR10+ certified panel which means better color accuracy, peak brightness, and contrast ratio. Not only that the display reduces blue light by 42% thereby reducing the damage that our smartphones do to our eyes.

    I was happy when we stopped having to worry about screen burn in and LED backlit screens... Not sure I want a full size TV yet with burning issues:

    https://www.cnet.com/news/oled-screen-burn-in-what-you-need-to-know/

    As lovely as OLED screens are on TVs from LG and Sony, and phones like the Galaxy S9 and the iPhone X, one of the biggest potential problems is burn-in. 

    Burn-in happens when a persistent part of the image on-screen -- navigation buttons on a phone, or a channel logo, news ticker or a scoreboard on a TV, for example -- remains as a ghostly background no matter what else appears on-screen. 

    Last year the screen of Google's Pixel 2 XL phone showed the problem, prompting Google to extend the phone's warranties. Apple's support page for the iPhone X touts that it's been designed to reduce the effects of "OLED 'burn-in'" even as it acknowledges that it can occur in "extreme cases." 

    In the TV world, some owners on YouTube, forums and social media have reported the issue, and the reviews site RTINGS has demonstrated burn-in on LG OLED TVs in long-term tests.

    Ultimately, the dilemma is this: All organic light-emitting diode (OLED) screens can burn-in, and from everything we know, they're more susceptible than standard liquid crystal displays (LCD). But those same OLED screens produce better image quality than LCD.

    I guess I will tolerate OLED in a phone where battery life is very important... But don't want that issue in a TV.

    -Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    They have been using OLED  in smartphones for years. They are cheaper and consume less energy. 

    I don't think burn in is a common problem - bordering on theoretical - which of course some folks find a way to get 'er done.

    Curious that 55" is the smallest size though. Very odd. Perhaps that changes soon. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    BB. said:

    Ultimately, the dilemma is this: All organic light-emitting diode (OLED) screens can burn-in, and from everything we know, they're more susceptible than standard liquid crystal displays (LCD). But those same OLED screens produce better image quality than LCD.

    I guess I will tolerate OLED in a phone where battery life is very important... But don't want that issue in a TV.

    -Bill

    ?? Huh?  That's been a factor for 80 some odd years - and screen savers have solved it.  Not really an issue any more.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,634 admin
    #6
    TVs turned to news programs (ticker/news blurbs at bottom of screen, Logos elsewhere), and such... TVs don't usually use screen savers.

    Normal media viewing--Probably not an issue. However, with closed caption, station logos, freeze frame, DVR, TV DVR, DVDs, etc. that hold an image with "bright elements" on pause for a long period of time--could be an issue?

    https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled

    If you follow the above link and look through the comments... Burnin does seem to be an issue with some OLED TVs. Closed caption and station/network logos seem to burn in the RED OLED mostly.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Sams Club had a returned 65" LG OLED for $1200. Pretty tempting. Give it three years or so....it is coming.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • PNW_Steve
    PNW_Steve Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭
    #8
    I am a bit confused. 

    From the reading I have done it looks like OLED TV's use significantly more power than LED.  Am I misunderstanding? 

    If that is correct,  why would you want one off grid?

    I have been searching for the absolute lowest power consumption possible. The current contender I a Samsung 32" LED. 

    One habit I have developed lately is leaving the TV on all day for "noise". I need to break that habit before we go on the road. 
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    PNW_Steve said:
    I am a bit confused. 

    From the reading I have done it looks like OLED TV's use significantly more power than LED.  Am I misunderstanding? 

    If that is correct,  why would you want one off grid?

    I have been searching for the absolute lowest power consumption possible. The current contender I a Samsung 32" LED. 

    One habit I have developed lately is leaving the TV on all day for "noise". I need to break that habit before we go on the road. 
    I don't know what today's profit maximizers are up to but the history of OLED screens is this: Developed for smartphones due to lower power usage. Wound up costing less to produce after the OLED screens took over. 

    Something odd is up since 55" is the smallest screen size for OLED tv sets. Something odd is up frequently now that we have to do frequent and diligent work on our social credit scores. This is how I massage my numbers (using week-ends assuming that bots are more active and don't out think my clearly superior patriotism)
    :







    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Wow, looks like you've had too much to think

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  • Makers
    Makers Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭
    #11


    Toshiba 50" Amazon Edition Fire TV LED uses 87w streaming with wifi

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Makers said:


    Toshiba 50" Amazon Edition Fire TV LED uses 87w streaming with wifi

    Seems pretty much like the expected amount. OLED use about half the energy of LED  - as memory serves. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Makers
    Makers Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭
    #13
    65" tvs, all have product energy links, all are rated for 5 hours a day at .12 KWH

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N4GWMNV?ref=dacx_dp_8980072210601_9240487430001&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&aaxitk=hWISGXap93WYWXu4E4Wp9g

    QLED-$1200 ($22/year to run)

    https://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-OLED65B8PUA-65-Inch-Ultra/dp/B07DPRT1FJ/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=oled+tv+65&qid=1573605672&s=electronics&sr=1-3

    OLED-$1800 ($27/year to run)

    https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN65RU7100FXZA-Flat-UHD-Smart/dp/B07NC96MBL/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=led+tv+65&qid=1573605730&s=electronics&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sr=1-3

    LED-$600-On sale I guess from 900 ($18/year to run)






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  • paulcheung
    paulcheung Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭
    #14
    With that far difference on cost, Can you see the difference on picture and sound quality? 
    XW6848+ Magnum 4448PAE (Backup) 7800 watts total mixed Panels, 370 AH @48volts battery bank. Grid assist and soon be Tied.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    paulcheung said:
    With that far difference on cost, Can you see the difference on picture and sound quality? 
    LG has recently started advertising the picture quality of OLED in earnest. I seem to remember better color saturation being offered. But the entire premise of OLED screens for smartphones was about the energy efficiency. 

    I think we are still being deceived. Perhaps this is the plan:
    1) Sell them a new TV offering a better picture from 2019-2022.
    2) Sell them a new TV offering better energy efficiency from 2022-2025.
    3) Rinse, repeat.
    4) Profit. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Maybe it's just my aging eyes, but I don't see the picture quality of new TVs being so much better than my 15yr old TV in the city to make me want to replace it.  I can already see the HD zits and wrinkles on the talking heads now, do I really need to see a few more?

    My off-grid TV uses zero watts by not existing.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Estragon said:
    Maybe it's just my aging eyes, but I don't see the picture quality of new TVs being so much better than my 15yr old TV in the city to make me want to replace it.  I can already see the HD zits and wrinkles on the talking heads now, do I really need to see a few more?

    My off-grid TV uses zero watts by not existing.
    My gift of discernment tells me that TV's are not very important to you. I wouldn't know what to do in the dark without TV. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Your gift of discernment hasn't let you down.

    Reading or listening to the radio and using my imagination at the cabin is a big part of its appeal to me.


    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • wellbuilthome
    wellbuilthome Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    #19
    Well my wife just came home with a Samsung 65” last years model for under 400 bucks . 
     The 75” was 700+-  seams cheep enough to me . 
      I don’t even need a tv but she can’t resist a deal . 
    Out back  flex power one vfx3648A 15 295 watt panel . 
     Out back fx80 CC 
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       9 295 watt panels for ground mount  will be installed next year 
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  • wellbuilthome
    wellbuilthome Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    #20
    There is a huge difference in the pictures , just walk into a Best Buy and look at the TVs on the wall , the best picture will be a Samsung unit 
     there are a couple of other models that come close , but not as good . 
    Out back  flex power one vfx3648A 15 295 watt panel . 
     Out back fx80 CC 
     16  GC 215 amp ah battery’s 
       9 295 watt panels for ground mount  will be installed next year 
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019 #21
    Estragon said :   I can already see the HD zits and wrinkles on the talking heads now, do I really need to see a few more?
    If clarity  is an issue, just take your glasses off.   Works for me everytime I get grossed out by a zit... :o


     
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    #22
    I bought a LG OLED C8 55 inch model. Set to max energy savings it uses 79 watts. However, it is too dim to watch at that setting. Lowest acceptable setting uses 88 watts. When set to something more comparable and enjoyable to the LED set it replaced, the OLED uses 109 watts. The quality of the picture is quite remarkable.

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    #23
    Wow I did not realize OLED was a new thing ! 
     Looks really good , that’s must be why they are selling last years model tv for 400 bucks. 
      I have to agree with Estragon  I’m not sure about 15 year old TVs but I have a 9 year old Samsung that gets a great picture , I was watching The Godfather #1 yesterday and it is as if sonny and the guys are in the room with me .
     At home I have 55” and 65” Samsung units and they use 45/55watts depending on settings . 
      Off grid I have a50” that is 2 years old and uses 45 watts . 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #24
    I'm a bit ticked by my 52" Vizio because it has exactly one energy savings setting - dark. I just leave it there. Also I can't seem to turn off its Vizio network without unplugging it. There is no way that the Vizio network helps. 

    I suspect television energy usage will largely depend on how bright the picture is. A dark movie using much less energy than a bright movie. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    #25
    The Samsung power seems to stay about the same , I use a thumb drive to store movies and shows 100s of them . 
     My small 22” tv uses 20 watts 32” 30 watts 55s use 50watts +-  
       I have to say I went to target yesterday and wandered into the tv area  , the OLED TVs do look really good . 
       But I’m fine with the regular led , 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
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