Looking for assistance with Grid Support settings on Schneider XW6848+

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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #32
    well now, with this new information I think I'll make an outdoor enclosure anyway for the AGMs!  What is GVS? it has its own section and only one parameter which is enabled/disabled and it is disabled by default. Nothing in the manual about it of course :p 
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  • Tecnodave
    Tecnodave Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭
    #33
    I like the outdoor enclosure, I would not like a big battery bank under my bedroom....but do vent it and screen the vents, rodents like battery boxes. As to the other question, I'm no Schneider's expert, I'll leave that question for someone else, my inverters and expereince, MagnaSine, Outback, Cotek, Exeltech,  Dynamote Brutus, old Trace SW4024
    2 Classic 150, 2 Kid, 5 arrays 7.5 kw total  2ea.  2S6P Sharp NE-170/NE-165, 1ea. 12P Sanyo HIT 200,  2ea. 4/6P Sanyo HIT 200, MagnaSine MS4024AE, Exeltech XP-1100,  2 Banks L-16 battery, Rolls-Surette S-530 and Interstate Traction, Shunts with whizbangJr and Bogart Tri-Metric, iCharger i208B  dc-dc buck/boost converter with BMS for small form lithium 8S 16650 or LiFePO4,
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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #34
    Ok! New batteries on the way. Should I shutdown the system before connecting them? Adding another 8x6v string which will bring me to 440ah. I need to adjust my amps in the charging settings as well, I have it at 27amps now, have to try and find that calculation again to figure out what it will be for 440 instead of 220. Crossing fingers that my system will play a little more nicely 
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #35
    Definitely shut down XW. 
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #36
    Kinda thought so, should I juice all batteries up to max first too? I figure there should be a way to force charge them after I connect them but I haven’t figured that out in the manual yet so I might get a 6v capable charger and charge each one for a few hours first 
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #37
    You definitely want all batteries in a series string to be "matched" charge state---Does not matter if 50%, 80% or 100% SoC, just that they are all the same SoC (ideally, via hydrometer, or at least resting voltage).

    If the batteries are of unknown state, then charging to 100% and possibly equaling would not be bad (many vendors have a process for placing new batteries in service).


    What you do not want to do is mix 50% SoC and 100% SoC batteries in the same series string... To bring the 50% battery to full State of Charge, you would have to terribly overcharge the 100% SoC battery in the same string.

    Connecting parallel strings of batteries--It would be nice to at least have them with "similar" states of charge (i.e., do not mix 20% and 80% SoC parallel strings together) or you may have some high currents as one battery string "recharges" the second low SoC string.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #38
     I don’t think I can equalize them, as they say not to try doing that with AGM batteries?   But I’ll probably just turn everything off and charge up everything to the same level or as close as possible as I can get to it ,  thanks everybody !!!  I’ll post back when they come in and I’m done, if you don’t hear from me in about two or three weeks, that means I electrocuted myself somehow and I’m dead LOL 
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #39
    If you do not have the knowledge to do this safely you should hire the people who installed it. Sometimes with the desire to help people this is left out on this forum.

    Bill, do you remember the guy, long ago, who wired an XW up with the 2 strings in series?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #40
    Lololol, please tell me you are kidding about that?? The 2 strings in series that is. I’m only kidding about the electrocution part, and I do appreciate your concern. I am fully confident I can set up these batteries, just wasn’t sure if I could “hot-add” them or not.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #41
    Use a voltage meter to check voltage and polarity.
    Get rolls of red and black tape to mark all of the cable ends that look identical and may be bundled or in conduit and you can't "obviously see" sources and destinations of each cable run.
    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #42
    The electric tape idea is stellar! I was thinking of using zipties and little plastic tags, but electric tape is simpler and more "in your face" with the colors, leaves less question marks. Red is Pos, Black is Neg.... that is universal in most things electrical.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #43
    Depending on the complexity of your system, you can get a wide assortment of colors of "phase tape" for your project:

    https://www.amazon.com/phase-tape/s?k=phase+tape

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #44
    I often use a small zip tie over the tape, I've seen too many tapes in a hot box, unravel.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #45
    The best I've come up with is coloured heat shrink.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #46
    BB. said:
    Depending on the complexity of your system, you can get a wide assortment of colors of "phase tape" for your project:

    https://www.amazon.com/phase-tape/s?k=phase+tape

    -Bill
    score, ordered!
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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #47
    mike95490 said:
    I often use a small zip tie over the tape, I've seen too many tapes in a hot box, unravel.
    you mean the 50c rolls from harbor freight don't last? lol :disappointed:
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #48
    In electrician work, you are supposed to tape something like 6 inches of wire (back down into conduit, if possible/needed)--Not just a couple wraps near the end of the cable (I am definitely not an electrician).

    -Bill "your results may vary" B.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #49
    Coming back to this, now have 16 batteries, 2 strings of 8, 48v each string. Set Inverter and Controllers to 440ah. Today is a semi sunny day, some roaming clouds occasionally blocking my array. Been kinda sitting here watching the paint dry and what I have noticed as cursory results...

    1. THe situation only happens usually when I'm above 4500w generation, but did happen when under. It has been sitting in the 4k range for a while and has not dropped like it used to.

    2. Still drops to 0 when clouds roll in and darken the sky heavily, then after a few seconds it climbs back up to 1k-3k for overcast power production, and will climb back up when the clouds fly past. So anytime there is a drastic drop in sunlight the issue still seems to occur. 

    3. The batteries don't seem to switch from charge/discharge as fast as I noticed before.


    Of course this is less than 24 hours worth of results, but it seems adding another string has done "something" good. It is nice to see power generation above 4k steady without total kill drops. I'll give it a few days and see what happens. BTW I did a master reset to Factory after adding the batteries and setting all the parameters again. :)

     
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #50
    Sounds like you are not losing any significant amount of energy during the cloud events (a few seconds of lost power is "nothing" in the grand scheme of hours of sun per day).

    And depending on how dark the sky is, dropping to 25% or even 5% (or less) of full sun of harvest is normal.

    From watching my GT system in times past (Grid Tie system are always sending 100% of available harvest to grid, unlike battery based systems where you also have battery State of Charge and loads to make harvest numbers "complicated"), even some high thin clouds can cause 50% output--And just looking outside the windows, I would not even notice that level of "dimming"...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • bsair
    bsair Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #51

    Post 11 and 32 were never answered  and I have the same question about set up. two XW6048 120/240, two XW 60 150, Schneider PWP, ComBox, and SCP II

    Grid is 240v split phase (L1-N-L2). Set up as split phase master and split phase slave. During set up in AC settings it ask, among other things, AC1lo volt, AC1 hi volt. In manual it shows for 120volt to set at 106 low and 132 hi, for 240 volt low 212 hi 264. My problem is it will not allow the 240 volt settings. How do I make the change? FYI current firmware is installed and also rebooted to factory.

    Also wanted to know what GVS is, nothing in book about it.



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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #52
    Can you post pictures of what you are seeing, I'm trying to save these guys from having to repeat themselves if I can since they have been so helpful for me, I think you might be seeing the same things I am.
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  • bsair
    bsair Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #53
    Your post #11 is the same set up screen I have. same settings. I think it is wrong. but don't know. And the GVS question is the same as your post #32
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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #54
    bsair said:
    Your post #11 is the same set up screen I have. same settings. I think it is wrong. but don't know. And the GVS question is the same as your post #32
    So as far as the #11, everything is fine. On the main page you will see the 2 separate 120v readings totallinh 240, so no worries there. As for GVS... yes I'm still wondering about that one
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  • bsair
    bsair Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #55
    A problem I'm having lately is grid support. It seems that grid has taken over. When batteries are full and PV is producing more than loads, the units are pushing grid to loads instead of PV. I have two 6048. If I put slave unit in standby mode I am able to use PV for loads but no grid support at all when loads are higher than PV available. I think that maybe relay for grid support may be bad but not sure. Measured grid voltage has been around 254 volts from P.G & E. don't know if that makes any difference. I installed a third 6048 (also slave) and can standby either slave which allows the remaining 2 inverters to carry loads but still no grid support and inverter shut down when loads are greater than PV.
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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #56
    @bsair do you have all components synced and connected with cables (i think it is just ethernet cabling required) and there is an option in the master inverter to cascade devices" XW>Settings>Multi-Unit>Cascading" I would think maybe you need it to not cascade? The second one should be the slave, the main one the master, and if cascading settings is on maybe it is trying to make both the master? I really don't know, someone with more experience could chime in, my setup only consists of one inverter.
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  • bsair
    bsair Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #57

    Continuing..

    ...when loads are greater than PV and battery. I wonder why standby on either slave would shut down grid on entire system. It seems that if one is in standby the others should be able to function as if the standby unit was physically out of the system. Hmmm... Maybe my master has a problem and I need to take it off line and configure one of the slaves as master to see if the problem goes away.

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  • DickyDck
    DickyDck Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭
    #58
    bsair said:

    Continuing..

    ...when loads are greater than PV and battery. I wonder why standby on either slave would shut down grid on entire system. It seems that if one is in standby the others should be able to function as if the standby unit was physically out of the system. Hmmm... Maybe my master has a problem and I need to take it off line and configure one of the slaves as master to see if the problem goes away.

    sounds like a good troubleshooting step, I know I'm no expert but would like to help out if I can since our systems are very similar. How big is your battery bank? I recently doubled mine and a lot of sporadic behavior has simmered down on mine

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  • bsair
    bsair Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #59
    600 plus amps. lasts almost all night with 2 window a/c units. Going to upgrade to four 6048 and two pdp. Already have the equipment and started mounting. Right now system is pulling 5kw from PV sending 3.6kw to loads and .6kw to batteries. tried the test mentioned earlier to no avail. Have three 6048 on line with one of them in standby. Other two inverting and pulling no power from grid. If I take the one off of standby then all load power comes from grid. SCC (two of them) cut back power to batt bank and that drops below .5kw (500 watts) and PV shows its output to be the same as batt draw. i.e. no power to loads except from grid. It is like Grid support does not function at all. SCP shows as grid support. With none in standby, when batteries go down, SCP shows AC pass through. With one slave in standby (with  enough power either PV or batt) SCP shows two 6048s inverting and one in standby, which they are. ComBox and SCP actually concur with each other. 
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  • bsair
    bsair Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #60
    One master two slaves and cascade checked for yes. All networked together and all synced as per manuals.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #61
    Not that I use the grid  in any way so not attempting to offer advice, however I did  review changes made to firmware, there is mention of updates to enhance PV priority in hybrid applications. This may be irrelevant if firmware is up to date.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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