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ldizzel
ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Positive terminal one charge controller melted 2 batteries warm 2 batteries warm any ideas of causes
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    A short circuit?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    A loose connection either on the PC board or a terminal not tight enough are possible causes, the batteries would get warm dischargeing into where the heat was being generated. What size of a system do you have, dose the controller have load terminals, If so are they being used, when did this happen, whilst charging? .

    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    In the meantime, I highly recommend disconnecting the circuit.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    ldizzel said:
    Positive terminal one charge controller melted 2 batteries warm 2 batteries warm any ideas of causes

    System specs, settings, battery types, pictures...

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #6
    It happened  during the equalization stage I'm assuming As I only caught the tail lead of it when I got home Is a small a battery bank 75 W each charge controller was a 80 am MPPT capable 
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #7
    8 battery bank75 each running 12v  System
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Any overcurrent protection,  fuse or circuit breaker 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #9
    Most definitely the charge controllers toast When I touch the lead  For the batteries the terminal literally fell out
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2018 #10
    Sounds like a pc board failure, but without seeing, this is merely speculation
    .edit  You have 8 12V batteries in parallel? 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #11
    No
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    ldizzel said:
    No

    System specs, settings, battery types, pictures...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #13
    Unfortunately not yet could a bad cell in the bank done this we only have 6 100w panels hook up 
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Yes, break the circuit,and figure it out later.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #15
    12 amp 600ah bank 600w panels  Vert a Max 3000 W Pearsinwave inverter 80amp cc 
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Were any of the wires/cables burnt?  If only in one place that is the most likely place you have a loose connection and it heated up !

    Like this...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #17

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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #18
    Yes 8 in parallel
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #19
    Have 24  75ah each  batteries but do not have the panels to sustain them
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #20
    Sorry guys I'm new to this trying to figure it out 
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #21
    Ya just that one wire the pos to the bat
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #22
    Okay with a quick search, you would find this is NOT an MPPT type charge controller. Reviews on Amazon, where the seller has updated there description to PWM.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0749K6BYN/ref=asc_df_B0749K6BYN5393082/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B0749K6BYN&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198064505516&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14373563873442639055&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023543&hvtargid=pla-379688682455

    This guy does a video of it and describes his experiences;

    https://youtu.be/UOWfNjxgZPQ

    It looks like there is some information on setting up the charge controller here;

    http://solarpowerheaven.us/sun-yoba-80a-lcd-solar-battery-regulator-charge-discharge-controller-12v-24v-with-usb/

    It does say that it's "12V/24V Automatically distinguish voltage" which means you must hoof up the battery first before the solar panels, so it can determine the correct charging voltage.  It does say panel voltage to 48 volts. a low number for a 24 v capable MPPT type charge controller.

    You don't tell us how your array (panels) were hooked up? All in parallel? I suspect you had them at least 2 in series? Other wise it would be hard for the array to create enough voltage and current to over power the battery bank.

    Do you have a link to a manual?
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #23
    I do appreciate it. I guess you get what you pay for LOL
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #24
    Agreed, it's a fake MPPT of questionable/low quality, no inductor, mosfets relying on interference contact with "heat sink" back panel , poor soldering on minimal pc board, it's not surprising it failed. There should be laws to prevent the sale of misleading equipment, this could have resulted in a fire, or worse.

    @ldizzel  Sorry about your misfortune, there are much better alternatives, perhaps this would be a good time to re design your system, many members will be helpful in getting the right equipment as well as offering suggestions on protection, conductor size and so forth. Having 8 parallel batteries is a recipe for disaster, if not configured correctly, I would suggest starting a new discussion, with a list of all current equipment, without  the fried controller, giving as many details as possible, panel specs, battery specs, load information. We all started at the beginning made mistakes, learned from them and pass information aquired  to those who need assistance.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #25
    If you bought it from some place that has  reputation to protect, I'd shoot for a return. I f you bought it on eBay, They have great protection for buyer! Particularly if they gave you bad information!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #26
    Do you have a wire  Diagram for the 8 batteies or better yet how many can I hook hook up with only 6 100w panels 
    12v batteries  75ah each I have 24 all tgether 
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #27
    The one I used Said perfect droll the one on top  is this good  or badbad
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #28
    Read all about parrallel batteries in the link below, very useful information 
    http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,615 admin
    #29
    It appears that the bus bar connections overheated... That can be from improper torquing of the screw, loose screw, or if a little water dripped/condensed on the connection and corroded.

    After you install your wiring, going through a month later, and again a year later, to retorque the connections is a good thing.

    I cannot tell from the pictures, but it is possible that there is a design issue with the bus bar screws...

    How much current do you usually pass through the cabling?

    May be simply too much current (power) through the wiring and overheating the "weakest link" (the binding screw terminals).

    For example, if you were running a 2,000 Watt load and 12 volt inverter:
    • 2,000 Watts * 1/0.85 ac inverter eff * 1/10.5 volts battery cutoff = 224 Amps
    And I like to derate NEC spec'ed wiring by 1.25x (0.80):
    • 224 amps * 1.25 derating = 280 Amp branch circuit (wiring and fuse minimum)

    That would be (ideally) a minimum of 4/0 cable:

    https://lugsdirect.com/WireCurrentAmpacitiesNEC-Table-301-16.htm

    And is approximately a 1/2 inch in diameter of copper:

    http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetsub19

    This is serious copper wiring...

    I don't think you can draw that amount of current/power from your battery bank (to run 2kWatts for a few hours, you would need at least a 800 AH @ 12 volt flooded cell lead acid battery bank).

    Anyway, more or less, 1,200 to 1,800 watt AC inverter is about the maximum I would suggest for a 12 volt battery bus voltage... It takes too much copper to manage the high current needed for larger inverters (and keep the voltage drop low from battery to inverter--  ~0.5 volt at max current load maximum recommended allowed drop)..

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #30
    I know everything worked perfectly fine then one day I came home Charge controller was on 14.4 thats When it Burns up
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  • ldizzel
    ldizzel Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #31
     whatever went wrong was caused by the equalization process Not necessarily by but during
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