Sunedison 320w

Joesouth75
Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I have aquired 5 sunedison 320w panels. They are new. The seller said they were 24v but I don't see anything stating that on the tag. Can anyone confirm that for me? Here is the panel tag. Any information would be great. Thank you in advance.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    With an open circuit voltage of 45.9V, the panel would be a 72 cell, 24V nominal, which can be used with either  PWM or MPPT  controllers , if it were a 60 cell, it could not be used with PWM.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #3
    Thank you for clarifying that. Now can anyone help with connecting them. I want to keep it 24v so that would be a parallel connection....right? Is there a diagram available for this?
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    That would depend on the charge controller, PWM would be parrallel, MPPT would be series / parrallel, depending on the panels count. Do you have a controller?
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #5
    I have a midnite 200 controller, 5 panels at 320w each. I have an Aims 2500w 24v inverter. Am I suppose to have fuses between panels and controller? If so what size (amps) fuse do you recommend?
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    The best thing to do is use the string sizing tool on the Midnite Web page, this will provide all the options with your particular controller and the panels you have. To be honest it would appear you're working backwads, the loads is where one needs to start, which will determine the battery, which in turn determines the array size and configuration, based on the controller, perhaps you have done this already??? and just working out the panel arrangement. Once all the relevant details are available, then fuse, wire size and other details can be calculated, this makes for a better overall design, with less chance of dissapointment.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #7
    I have 4 t105 6v Trojan batteries with 225ah. I will check out the string sizing tool. Thank you
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #8
    Mcgiver here are the results of the sizing tool. Can you tell if my setup will work based on the info I have given already?
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    @Joesouth75
    I'm sure Mcgiver will comment soon, but I will comment on a couple of problems. This particular panel is most efficiently used in a string of 2 ( 2 panels in series) to charge a 24 volt battery. The other problem is that a 24 volt 225 amp hour battery bank can take a maximum of about 30 charging amps. A single string of 320 watt panels will produce about 20 charging amps. This is a 9 to 10% charge rate on your 24 volt 225AH battery bank which will work. If you want to use 2 strings of panels (4 panels), I would suggest limiting the charging current in the Classic 200 to 30 amps. This will improve low light wattage production and produce more power throughout the day. This will work better.
    Rerun the string sizer with 2 strings of 2 panels and see what you get.

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017 #10
    Agreed 2 panels 2 strings is about the maximum, given the battery capacity, current limiting may be required if  the current exceeds ~30A, but generally the morning sun is weak, gradually increasing till noon, by that time the battery may be self limiting, accepting only what it needs. This is a good position to be in, having the ability to limit, current  if necessary, during summer months, during winter it could be possible to increase amperage , to take advantage of limited hours,  up to about 15% of the battery capacity, or 34A. Fine tuning specific to your location, weather etcetera will be something to learn, but having the ability to control the limitations is a distinct advantage over a cheap controller, which has no control. Sadly the 5th. panel is of little use in this configuration.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #11
    Thank you both for the info. Is it worth getting a 6th panel for an even number or just have a spare and go with 4? This is for my off grid cabin. Gas fridge and stove. Just running lights and tv. Any thoughts?
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    The battery capacity is too low to support 6 panels, but the spare won't go bad and you will expand :)  
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017 #13
    @Joesouth75
    Being already over paneled with 2 strings of 4, another string would be excessive. If you realize that this system configuration does not meet your power requirements, then the next step would be to add another string of 4 batteries and possibly another string of panels.

    Two strings of panels will require circuit protection, well not required, but it's good to have them on breakers for troubleshooting. A combiner box with two 15 amp DC rated breakers would work well for this. Here's a link:
    https://www.solar-electric.com/mnpv3.html and the breakers, https://www.solar-electric.com/mnepv.html 

    You will need a DC breaker or fuss in the neighborhood of 80 amps between the charge controller and the battery. I recommend using #4 AWG wire for this connection. Also a DC breaker or fuse between the battery and the inverter, recommend a 125 amp breaker with 2/0 AWG wire, keep all DC cable wiring as short as possible, the link for both CC and inverter battery breakers:
    https://www.solar-electric.com/pamodccibr.html and https://www.solar-electric.com/mnedc125.html
    A box to mount them in: https://www.solar-electric.com/mnedc-quad.html

    Keep in mind, the low battery voltage shutdown feature of the inverter is to protect the inverter, not the battery. Inverter specs also state high voltage protection is 30 to 34 volts. Equalizing voltage for the T105 battery bank can be above 32 volts. Hopefully this won't be a problem.

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #14
    Thank you both very much. This has been a great help.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #15
    Mcgivor, by wiring 2 panels in a series that ups my volts to 48. Do I set my controller to 48v even though my battery bank is 24v? Help!
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Joesouth75 said:
    Mcgivor, by wiring 2 panels in a series that ups my volts to 48. Do I set my controller to 48v even though my battery bank is 24v? Help!

    No leave the controller set for the battery bank, 24 volt nominal.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Photowhit is right - leave the controller output set for 24v bank, irrespective of panels wiring.

    Just so you have a sense of the "why" - your controller is mppt type. The main advantage to this type of controller is the ability to take a higher and somewhat variable voltage and buck it down to a voltage appropriate for charging. This allows for a wider variety of panel, and use of smaller wire to carry lower current at high voltage to the controller The controller regularly adjusts for changes in pv voltage to maximize the current available for charging and/or loads. It bucks the voltage, but increases the current going to the battery. Wattage out (volts x amps) is about whatever the panels will produce.

    A pwm controller is a different animal. It takes whatever voltage and current it gets from pv and pulses that to the bank. Any "extra" voltage (more than ~32v in your case) is sort of wasted. Whatever current the panels produce goes to the panels, but that's it. Wattage out from CC to bank would be (roughly) amps in x charging voltage. A MN classic is mppt type, so not an issue for you.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    The Classic will automatically set itself to the battery bank voltage. 
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #19
    Thank you very much
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #20
    Hey guys another issue...I get full sun for about 6-7hrs a day. While in full sun the controller says 234 watts 6.7amps 80.4 volts. Battery voltage is good but I have 1280 watts of panels. Shouldn't I be getting alot more watts than 234? What am I doing wrong? I can only run lights in the cabin. No fans, tv, etc
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,617 admin
    #21
    Nominally, the best case "average" power (noon) would be (assuming 24 volt battery bank):
    • 1,280 Watt array * 0.77 derating = 986 Watts into battery
    • 986 Watts / 29 volts charging = 34 amps (into battery bank on very good / sunny day in cool weather)
    Remember the battery charger is supplying voltage needed to keep the battery "happy". Either ~29.0 volts when charging (absorb) or ~27.6 volts or so in float.

    If your battery bank is mostly full in the middle of the day (charge controller is not in "bulk" or maximum power transfer) but in Absorb or Float, the system is, generally, drawing less than full available power from the array.

    You need to place a heavy load on the DC battery bus, to get the charge controller to output its maximum available energy (or let the battery discharge for a day and then recharge under full sun the next day).

    I am a little confused about your numbers and which ones they are.
    • 234 watts 6.7amps 80.4 volts.
    • 6.7 amps * 29 volts = 194 Watts (into battery bus)
    • 6.7 volts * 80.4 volts = 539 Watts (from solar array
    So, it does depend on "which" 6.7 volts we are talking about (array or DC battery bus).

    If you have flooded cell batteries, get a hydrometer and measure the specific gravity (rinse out the hydrometer with distilled water after use):

    https://www.solar-electric.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=hydrometer

    -Bill


    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #22
    Hello everyone I have been absent from here for awhile but I've made progress. I have found another panel to add to my array. It's a LG 315w. Now can I series a sun Edison 320w and a LG 315 together for another pair? I already have 2 pair of panels. This would be my 3rd pair. If I can I'll add another battery bank and would have to add another classic 200. Any thoughts?
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017 #23
    @Joesouth75
    Ok, so now you have 3 strings of panels, almost 1900 watts. You will not need another Classic controller. Three strings of panels should deliver about 60 charging amps max, maybe a little more if the panels are cold. If your current battery bank meets your power requirements then the charging amps limit on the Classic will need to be set at 30 amps. If not, then another string of T105's in parallel to the first will be necessary. You may want to try it this way before investing in more batteries. Power production will be increased 33% for 2 to 3 hours in the morning and afternoon with 3 strings of panels and the charging amps limit set to 30. 

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #24
    Hi Rick, I don't have the 6th panel yet. I'm just asking if I can series a sun Edison 320w with the lg 315w? If I can I'll buy the lg. Thanks for the info on the amp setting and the battery bank. I used the sizing tool on midnite solar website and it said 3 pairs was borderline to much. I'm still in the learning stage here. Any help would be appreciated.
    Joe
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #25
    Another ? Rather than buy a 6th panel, is there a configuration I can use for the 5 panels I have that will work with my classic 200?
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    #26
    @Joesouth75
    Sorry, there is no configuration that will work with 5 panels. What is the model number of the LG panel?

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #27
    Model # LG315N1C-G4
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017 #28
    @Joesouth75
    The LG panel is a very high efficiency 60 cell panel with a VMP of 33 volts and is not compatible with your panels. You need a 72 cell panel, VMP close to 37 volts.

    Rick 
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #29
    Thank you
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  • Joesouth75
    Joesouth75 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    #30
    Hello everyone, I have been absent for a few months. I'm back with a few questions. I now have six 320w sun Edison panels with a 24v battery bank of four t-104 batteries. I'd like to add 4 more batteries and parallel them together. My question is how many strings of 4 can I parallel together?
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019 #31
    Technically there is no limit but as the number of parallel strings increases so does the potential to have imbalances in the charging and discharging currents which can cause some strings working harder than others, leading to premature failure. There are different schools of thought but the general consensus is keep it to a minimum, two or perhaps three, despite it being possible to achieve balance with more. If there is a need to increase capacity beyond this, it's better to use larger capacity batteries. Another thing to be aware of, it's not good practice to mix old with new batteries, unless pretty close in age and lightly used. This link is commonly referred to and explains the theory and how to connect to achieve better balance http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
    · Share on Twitter

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