A friend gave me 4 panels & golf cart batteries. Now watt?

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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017 #32

    @ajerez said, Costco doubled generator prices here. A generator that cost $600 before the storm is now $1500.

    It's actually criminal, in my opinion, that a company "Costco " would take advantage of situational circumstances in the interest of profit, being such a large company they should, again my opinion,  be helping, as that would pay dividends in the future, of course I have no first hand information, so this is merely a point of view. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #33
    There must be a reason behind the genset price increases....or else it is pretty criminal. Our third most populous state also got their grid hammered so I imagine generator manufacturers may be working and paying overtime these days.

    Been thinking about this and I really can't see investing in solar for six months of need. Grid power is ~3 times cheaper than solar power when all things are considered. A real surprise to many who visualize "free energy" from the sun. Four 120 watt panels is not enough to power a medium sized refrigerator by my quick estimation. There are also unforeseen costs such as copper cabling.

    Costco sells 10 lb bags of ice for $1 where I am. With a good cooler, one could use ice to keep their food cool enough. Though I would imagine that ice prices also went nuts. It probably cost more than $1 for 10 pounds of ice before the storm. 

    I have a business account and shipping still costs ~$2/pound within the US. So shipping a generator from the US is probably not very economic. Though Amazon typically has great shipping deals.

    People often used ice instead of refrigerators until the 1930's. It is tough but doable. I am frequently amazed at how tough and resourceful people used to be and how soft most of the developed world has become.

    If you stick with $olar, stick with us. We will help guide you through it I would think. Other posters have forgotten more than I know...

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #34
    Please keep in mind. We're an island 1040 miles from Florida. I can't just drive to another state and buy stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if the scalping starts up the chain. Ice and water is up 25% to 30%.
    Ice is at $3 per 10lb bag.
    FEMA has its hands full.
    I agree 6 months isn't reasonable but I'd like to start small with whatever I can get my hands on then work my way up to being near off grid.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,641 admin
    #35
    Supply and demand vs government rationing.

    $600 genset and difficult delivery/stocking post storm. =few generators and long period to get supply chain stocked.

    $1,200 genset, reduced demand and higher profits =gensets flooding market in a short period of time.

    For example, gasoline stations basically price their fuel based on replacement cost. Not on what they paid for fuel last month.

    Try buying basic goods in Venezuela right now. Government price controls and rationing is not working very well.

    People stand in line (and use government contracts) to buy food&supplies under price control, and then sell at free market prices (or export to Columbia for "real money".

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017 #36
    Costco is going to have a very large percentage of these generators returned as soon as the grid is restored. Yikes. 

    People talk about scalping. Ain't much scalpin' like the scalpin' consumers freely lay on business's. 

    So far, I think an ice chest, with additional insulation, and partially buried may be your most economical bet. 

    Unless you can score a propane fridge out of a wrecked and abandoned boat....

    Hurricanes hurt. Last one blew the shingles off my rental and the rentor's skedaddled this week. Income down $800/mt and ~$6500 for new roof....being optimistic. Always something. Always something big it would seem.   
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • myocardia
    myocardia Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    #37
    softdown said:
    So far, I think an ice chest, with additional insulation, and partially buried may be your most economical bet. 

       
    Indeed. As a matter of fact, if Amazon is currently shipping to Puerto Rico, this 100 quart cooler that will hold ice for 5 days in 90 degree (Fahrenheit) weather would really be all @ajperez would need, at least as far as food goes.
    DoD= depth of discharge= amount removed from that battery   SoC= state of charge= amount remaining in that battery
    So, 0% DoD= 100% SoC, 25% DoD= 75% SoC, 50% DoD= 50% SoC, 75% DoD= 25% SoC, 100% DoD= 0% SoC
    A/C= air conditioning AC= alternating current (what comes from the outlets in your home) DC= direct current (what batteries & solar panels use)
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #38
    Running a refrigerator overnight with the equipment on hand is not realistic, in the past I used a small chest freezer off solar, set to maximum cold during the day, full sun, turning off when the panels couldn't support the load. This worked fairly well as a stop gap, keeping perishables cold enough, adding ice helps, it takes time to monitor however, when the ambient temperature was ~30°C, it was fine, but when 47°C arrived not so good, being on an island the temperature is probably moderated by the ocean, I'm inland tropical and used this during the dry season, no clouds.Some food for thought.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #39
    @myocardia which cooler is that?
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #40
    5 days 90 degree 100 quart?
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  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    #41
    https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Quart-Xtreme-Wheeled-Cooler/dp/B000G64FJK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1508509871&sr=8-3&keywords=100+quart+cooler
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #42
    It doesn't ship to Puerto Rico...figures.
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  • myocardia
    myocardia Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017 #43
    ajperez said:
    @myocardia which cooler is that?

    ajperez said:
    5 days 90 degree 100 quart?

    Raj174 said:
    https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Quart-Xtreme-Wheeled-Cooler/dp/B000G64FJK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1508509871&sr=8-3&keywords=100+quart+cooler
    Oops, my mistake. I meant to link to one of the Coleman 100 quart 5 day coolers, such as the one that Raj linked.
    ajperez said:
    It doesn't ship to Puerto Rico...figures.
    @ajperez Try this one instead, then. It is smaller, and will be easier/cheaper for Amazon to get there:
    https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Quart-Xtreme-Wheeled-Cooler/dp/B00BYDG3BM/ref=sr_1_5?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1508517156&sr=1-5&keywords=Coleman+xtreme+cooler Also, will Amazon not just let you pay to have it shipped there? Try selecting the "Standard" shipping, instead of the "free" shipping for either of these coolers.

    edit: All of the Coleman Xtreme coolers are 5 day @ 90ºF coolers. They come in sizes from 120 quart to 28 quart. Just buy the largest one that Amazon will ship to Puerto Rico.

    DoD= depth of discharge= amount removed from that battery   SoC= state of charge= amount remaining in that battery
    So, 0% DoD= 100% SoC, 25% DoD= 75% SoC, 50% DoD= 50% SoC, 75% DoD= 25% SoC, 100% DoD= 0% SoC
    A/C= air conditioning AC= alternating current (what comes from the outlets in your home) DC= direct current (what batteries & solar panels use)
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #44
    Personally I have given in to the cooler idea. My son, on the other hand, wants to send me this. Any thoughts?
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UPRL502/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_1F66zb9D5GWYX
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #45
    ajperez said:
    Personally I have given in to the cooler idea. My son, on the other hand, wants to send me this. Any thoughts?
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UPRL502/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_1F66zb9D5GWYX

    I suspect that is for camping trips etc. Too small for continuous usage. See this specification quote: 
    "Sample Run Times: Dorm Sized Fridge - 24 hours"

    Top notch coolers costs several hundred dollars. The have thick walls and are significantly heavier than normal coolers. Shipping likely doesn't make sense for something that bulky. Costco or Sam's Club? WalMart or Target? Just guessing...

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #46
    From Costco in Puerto Rico. I have this cooler and it is very, very good. Though likely sold out.  For six months continuous usage, I would try to buy a very good cooler. 

    https://www.costco.com/KYSEK-105-Quart-Ultimate-Ice-Chest-Cooler.product.100284396.html

    Have you looked for an ice maker? You could then make ice a few hours/day.

    Of course anything related to this is going to be in very high demand.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • myocardia
    myocardia Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017 #47
    ajperez said:
    Personally I have given in to the cooler idea. My son, on the other hand, wants to send me this. Any thoughts?
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UPRL502/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_1F66zb9D5GWYX
     @ajperez Does your son happen to live in the US? If so, have your son buy a 70 or 100 quart Coleman cooler from Amazon, (assuming you aren't able to pay 5 times as much for one locally from Costco, of course), and he can send it to you through the post office. Your son can also just mail you a 5 or 10 pound block of dry ice once a week, and you won't even have to be using up gasoline looking for/buying normal ice. A decent-sized block of dry ice lasts for around a week, if I remember correctly.
    DoD= depth of discharge= amount removed from that battery   SoC= state of charge= amount remaining in that battery
    So, 0% DoD= 100% SoC, 25% DoD= 75% SoC, 50% DoD= 50% SoC, 75% DoD= 25% SoC, 100% DoD= 0% SoC
    A/C= air conditioning AC= alternating current (what comes from the outlets in your home) DC= direct current (what batteries & solar panels use)
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #48
    I ordered an ice maker from Amazon (all gone locally). It should arrive in less than 2 weeks. Coolers are also scarce at least the good ones. And I don't recall ever seeing that cooler in Costco, but then again I wasn't looking for one.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #49
    The Costco Business Center only had a couple I think, I bought the last one. Their Business Center's are a new concept with slightly different merchandise and same prices. Focusing on food and gear for restaurants. Missing a lot of stuff like clothes.

    You may try asking them about the cooler? At any rate, you will want to add additional insulation to any lesser cooler....which ~99% are. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #50
    @softdown and where are you located? I don't recall a business center in the Costco near me.
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #51
    Hey quick.poll....
    Who should I believe? Power percentage for the island and by when.
    1. Governor: 95% in December.
    2. US Army Corps of Engineers: 50% in May.

    Next poll:
    Should I...
    1. Laugh.
    2. Cry.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #52
    ajperez said:
    @softdown and where are you located? I don't recall a business center in the Costco near me.
    There are very few. The coolers seem to be hard to find though worth it. Ask Costco about it? $400 is a great price for the size and quality. Never seen one at the regular Costco stores myself.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #53
    ajperez said:
    Hey quick.poll....
    Who should I believe? Power percentage for the island and by when.
    1. Governor: 95% in December.
    2. US Army Corps of Engineers: 50% in May.

    Next poll:
    Should I...
    1. Laugh.
    2. Cry.
    75% in February. That will make the Corps look pretty good. You will probably have a sturdier grid when it is done. Though some areas will have a loong wait I suspect.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • ajperez
    ajperez Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #54
    Up to a year by some estimates.
    To make matters even more interesting, property owners need to make sure that their power meters are fixed and certified by a licensed electrician before that area or neighborhood is powered up.
    Some folks just up and left... we'll see what happens.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #55
    ajperez said:
    Up to a year by some estimates.
    To make matters even more interesting, property owners need to make sure that their power meters are fixed and certified by a licensed electrician before that area or neighborhood is powered up.
    Some folks just up and left... we'll see what happens.
    Horrific events almost beyond belief. Takes a long time to rebuild a country.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • mfritzinger
    mfritzinger Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1 ✭
    #56
    Hello AJ, did you have any luck getting those solar panels working?  The reason I ask is we are looking to buy an MSX120 solar panel.  WE busted one and need to replace it for a customer.  They are very hard to find.  If so we would also need to look at shipping cost to see if reasonable.  Anyway, just let us know.  Thanks!

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