Should I install latest softwear .

Thom · July 2017

I bought a kid charge controler 3 years ago I think . It's working fine . Would you just leave it b or install latest softwear ?

thom

Thom · July 2017

A guess I should add it's not the system listed below. It's at a log cabin w 280w panel, 2 6v golf cart batteries and a 300 w suresine inverter

thanks thom

littleharbor2 · July 2017

I've had the same question before with my Classic 200. It's now in Baja away from the internet, The one time I did a software update it was quite the hassle and I don't think I gained any meaningful improvement. Makes me think, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Vic · July 2017

There have been quite a number of improvements in the KID (and Classic) Firmware, over the past several years.

Updating the KID FW is normally quite easy -- an easy Drag & Drop on the Desktop, on Windoze machines.

Will admit, that the Classics and the KID here, are a few revs behind.

Have been getting ready to try Updating the Classics. possibly later today.

FWIW, Good Luck, Vic

Estragon · July 2017

I wish midnite was a bit more diligent in documenting changes. There are things that can go wrong with updating firmware (and it's a PITA), so I'm reluctant to do so unless I have a compelling reason to. My classics run a recent but not current version of firmware, and I won't likely update firmware absent a good reason.

Solray · July 2017

I always run the latest firmware for all my electronics (receivers, thermostats, Sprinkler timers, cameras, motherboards, GPUs, OSs etc.) I would do the same for any equipment I own and operate.
For me it has always proven to be advantageous to run the latest supported versions.
The more you keep things updated the easier it is and the less intimidating it becomes.

Vic · July 2017

Estragon said:

I wish midnite was a bit more diligent in documenting changes. There are things that can go wrong with updating firmware (and it's a PITA), so I'm reluctant to do so unless I have a compelling reason to. My classics run a recent but not current version of firmware, and I won't likely update firmware absent a good reason.

Hi Estragon,

First, MidNite does reveal some of the fixes that newer FW versions addressed. See this page, as an example for the latest Classic FW version:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/firmwareReport.php?firmware_ID=9&firmwareProduct_ID=1&act=edit

AND, yes, sometimes Updating the Classic FW in the past could contain some drama.
BUT, just Updated one Classic 150, in use here, and the new "Programmer" for Classics is very easy to use, all went smoothly, and it seems to also be faster to complete Updates.

Also, the Local App (kinna a Dashboard that runs on your computer that displays current power production, and allows control and data recording) allows one to Export all of the custom settings in a Classic, and Import them after installing a fresh Update ... all of this, you probably know.

You might consider giving the new Update environment a try.

FWIW, Good Luck, Vic

Estragon · July 2017

Thanks @Vic, good info. I do use local app for changing stuff and downloading logs and settings.

I have one classic out of three that for no apparent reason, doesn't play well with LA. It seems fine with Graham's android app, but craps out the connection with LA in anywhere from a few seconds to a minute or two. It gets the connection back a few seconds later, but makes getting logs, etc. a bit laborious. Maybe the MAC address bug mentioned in the release note is connected. Will see if there's something on the MN forum on that.

Do you happen to know the size of coin battery it takes? One of the things that makes updating a PITA is having to take the cover off to get at the usb port, so while I'm in there, I'll change the coin battery.

I have used an old vista ( or maybe XP) laptop to update, but I do have a newer one that should run whatever "programmer" is. One issue I had with the old way was that none of the usb cables that came with the classics worked for firmware updates, so I used a shorter cable for a handheld GPS which worked. Did you use the longer MN supplied cable?

westbranch · July 2017

Estragon, I used the usb cable s supplied with no trouble, though with the first attempts to update, I was wondering if they might have been at fault, but the partial success were the puzzle, like it would work today and tomorrow not....??? just don't know...

Vic · July 2017

Estragon said:

Thanks @Vic, good info. I do use local app for changing stuff and downloading logs and settings.

I have one classic out of three that for no apparent reason, doesn't play well with LA. It seems fine with Graham's android app, but craps out the connection with LA in anywhere from a few seconds to a minute or two. It gets the connection back a few seconds later, but makes getting logs, etc. a bit laborious. Maybe the MAC address bug mentioned in the release note is connected. Will see if there's something on the MN forum on that.

Do you happen to know the size of coin battery it takes? One of the things that makes updating a PITA is having to take the cover off to get at the usb port, so while I'm in there, I'll change the coin battery.

I have used an old vista ( or maybe XP) laptop to update, but I do have a newer one that should run whatever "programmer" is. One issue I had with the old way was that none of the usb cables that came with the classics worked for firmware updates, so I used a shorter cable for a handheld GPS which worked. Did you use the longer MN supplied cable?

Hi Estragon,

I DO use the included USB cable supplied with the Classic. Just leave it permanently connected to the Classic, so removal of the front cover is not needed.

As Halfcrazy Ryan mentioned on the MN Forum, it is possible that the Network cable connected to the Classic might be conducting noise from the Classic, and perhaps upsetting the USB data on its cable. He DID say that for Classics which were difficult to FW Update, unplugging the Ethernet cable could make a large improvement in the ability to update those reluctant Classics. We separate all of the PV and battery cabling from all of the Comm, BTS and Control cabling -- each in its own metal conduit, which might have a slight benefit in comm reliability, perhaps.

Some have said that a shorter USB cable is often better for updates on those Classics that are a bit reluctant.

I believe that the Coin battery in the MNGP is a #1216 IIRC ...
EDIT: Checked my spare MNGP Coin battery, it IS a #1216. Searched the MN Forum, and there are several references to a 1216 being the MNGP back-up battery, but not from a MN tech person. Will try searching the latest Cl Manual ...<<

Honestly, I had not updated the Cl FW since 1849, which is probably dates from about three years ago. But with the new Update environment, I will be less reluctant to update again. Have three more Classics left to Ud. Am considering migrating the the Cloud data storage system -- My MidNite, so, more recent FW is required for that.

All FWIW, Good Luck, Vic

Solray · July 2017

You may want to add a ferrite choke to the cable if you are getting crosstalk interference from the other cables or sources nearby.

Lumisol · July 2017

Always install the latest version firmware. There is a reason it needs updating even though you may not understand why.

Estragon · July 2017

Thanks Vic - very helpful.

Lumisol · July 2017

mike95490 · July 2017

In my opinion, the midnight classic firmware update procedure sucks. Some folks say it works OK with win 10. I use an old laptop with XP, since the driver config instructions for win 8, are over 10 pages, and it never worked for me, Midnight also repairs a lot of "bricked" controllers.

westbranch · July 2017

see post #4 here,http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=3772.0
the new installer works with XP and up to W10.... Happy days...!

mike95490 · July 2017

Wow, that new installer slipped by me, gotta try it Thanks

Solray · July 2017

Midnite is a little behind the curve when it comes to updates, but they will catch up someday maybe. The problem is they started with a very poorly implemented system and have tried to play catch up ever since. The competition is lightyears ahead on their firmware updates and are also still improving so midnite is where they were at 5 years ago and will be where their competition is now in another 5 years.

Vic · July 2017

Solray said:

Midnite is a little behind the curve when it comes to updates, but they will catch up someday maybe. The problem is they started with a very poorly implemented system and have tried to play catch up ever since. The competition is lightyears ahead on their firmware updates and are also still improving so midnite is where they were at 5 years ago and will be where their competition is now in another 5 years.

Have to disagree with you Solray.

Do not see any comparative examples in the above Quote.

What is your experience with Updating the FW in Classics? A Signature line would help us understand your system. Have you tried the latest FW "Programmer" for the Classic?

The newest Classic Update environment is quite straightforward, and easy to use.

The Classic CCs are very, very comprehensive devices. This makes them more complex than most any other CC. This adds nuances.

Schneider CCs need extra cost gizmos to control and Update FW (MPPT 80-600), or to Update in the case of the MPPT 60. All of this is built-into the Classic, at a very affordable price.

I AM a bit of a fan-person of MidNite products. Have tried and used a number of other CCs. The Classic is tops, in my book. It is not quite perfect, but far closer to perfection than any other CC that I've seen. But, often if one just wants a stupid CC, with lots of optional, expensive doo-dads hanging off of it, then have at it. CCs, like many other RE hardware, are very application-specific.

My opinions, Vic

Thom · July 2017

the kid has worked flawlessly since put into service. That's y a asked if I should upgrade.

thanks all thom

Lumisol · July 2017

Yes. Always upgrade when a new version becomes available.

Thom · July 2017

Lumisol said:

Yes. Always upgrade when a new version becomes available.

So you own a kid charge controler now and have updated the firmware ?

thom

Estragon · July 2017

And when you updated the controller, it worked better?

Horsefly · July 2017

There's a ton of testimonials on line of people who upgraded their router or modem or whatever, and bricked it, when there was actually nothing in the new firmware that applied to their situation. My rule is completely the opposite from what has been suggested here: Unless something in the release notes clearly applies to your situation, there is no reason to risk making the situation much worse. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

mcgivor · July 2017

Over a 5 year period dealing with a problem on fire alarm panels, 56 in total, the manufacturer released 4 updated firmware EPROM chips in an attempt correct the problem. The update involved physically replacing the chips, defaulting, reprogramming the entire panel, then verifying, a time consuming exercise ×56. On the fourth revision, the problem was solved, some required new mother board due to being outdated

The point being, updates to cure an error or add a feature may actually cause other unforseen issues, if an update is critical to the function of a system, then an update is required, if the update is non critical it's often best to evaluate it's importance and delay until another revision is released dealing with a critical problem. Obviously life safety equipment is not the same, but having the option to delay installing an update that is non critical or irrelevant is something to think about. Or wait and see if, over time, no issues arise from those who fell the need to always update to the latest firmware revision.

littleharbor2 · July 2017

That had to be frustrating. Unfortunately this type of technology isn't any smarter than the people building and programing it.

Solray · July 2017

I would say if you are not sure of how to do an update and completely comfortable doing it, either send it to the manufacturer for the update or just don't do it at all and buy a new version from the manufacturer that is already running the new software.
As a person who understands programming, I always update everything I own that has firmware built into it bit if you don't know what you are doing or why, there is a good chance you will screw something up if you try.

Dave Angelini · July 2017

Solray said:

I would say if you are not sure of how to do an update and completely comfortable doing it, either send it to the manufacturer for the update or just don't do it at all and buy a new version from the manufacturer that is already running the new software.
As a person who understands programming, I always update everything I own that has firmware built into it bit if you don't know what you are doing or why, there is a good chance you will screw something up if you try.

Totally agree! I have several offgrid clients still running the original Schneider and Outback inverter firmware from 10+ years ago..
If you are not exposing the power system to the internet there really is little need to do any update on a working system.
Good firmware should always come with "release notes" that inform all of the issues addressed in the firmware. This will allow you to understand what may or may not be an issue.

It should also very obvious to someone offgrid that once you get into the inverter/charger firmware you will lose AC power on an Outback or Schneider inverter. If your modem is in the loop you will crash the firmware and possible lose power. There are ways to get around this but
if the release notes do not show any reason to update why do it?

However new firmware does often reduce the odds of "bricking" equipment and is a good idea to keep up to date. Some even make recovering a dead inverter much easier. It is a completely different level of risk offgrid with the inverter, and that is my point.

westbranch · July 2017

It should also very obvious to someone offgrid that once you get into the inverter/charger firmware you will lose AC power on an Outback or Schneider inverter. If your modem is in the loop you will crash the firmware and possible lose power. There are ways to get around this but
if the release notes do not show any reason to update why do it?

However new firmware does often reduce the odds of "bricking" equipment and is a good idea to keep up to date. Some even make recovering a dead inverter much easier. It is a completely different level of risk offgrid with the inverter, and that is my point.

And at this point the word ''redundancy'' should be up front, ie have a spare , even a smaller unit , like a KID if you have a Classic CC, sitting on the shelf or a second small array /c battery as a backup 'just in case', that can be commissioned for essentials....

Solray · July 2017

By the way, software is soft clothing, software is the program that runs on hardware (a computer or device with a processor) and wet ware is a human brain.

Should I install latest softwear .

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