electrolyte not cristal clear in 1 cell

dapago
dapago Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Hello guys,

this is morning I checked my batts cells and noticed that the electrolyte in 1 of the cells was not cristal clear like the others. The batts are only 1 year old Trojan T105RE.
Is it something normal and if not what can be done?

thanks in advance.
Off-grid. Midnight Classic 200. 2,480W array. Magnum Inverter MS4448PAE. 225Ah*8 @48V Trojan T105RE Smart Carbon. MN bkrs box.
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    What is the specific gravity of the cell?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • dapago
    dapago Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭
    edited June 2017 #3
    I first nivelled the cell with a bit of distilled water then took the SG . it reads 1220 but the reading could not be accurate because I just added water. I was thinking to EQ tomorrow morning. 
    Off-grid. Midnight Classic 200. 2,480W array. Magnum Inverter MS4448PAE. 225Ah*8 @48V Trojan T105RE Smart Carbon. MN bkrs box.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Discoloration could indicate over charging, but as it's only in one cell perhaps there was an accumulation of gas which burped,  stirring the lead sulphate, usually this clears by the next day. The following is an excerpt from Rolls tech support.

    Electrolyte Characteristics

    In new batteries, electrolyte should be clear of debris or any discolouration..

    During normal use you may notice the electrolyte in the battery cells has changed colour or become cloudy. Typically, this is not cause for concern.  
    Murky light grey is normal under regular use.  This is caused by sulfation being removed from the battery plates, which is natural and part of proper battery maintenance.  This debris will be most visible following corrective equalizations.  
    Murky dark grey or black electrolyte suggests the batteries have been overcharged or may not be properly maintained.  Please refer to your Rolls Battery User Manual for instructions on maintenance and corrective equalization.

    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • dapago
    dapago Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭
    edited June 2017 #5
    Thank mcgivor. The color was light grey and cloudy. Only 1 cell had this characteristic. Should I perform an EQ? In any case, is it a good idea to take part of the electrolyte and replace it with distilled water?
    Off-grid. Midnight Classic 200. 2,480W array. Magnum Inverter MS4448PAE. 225Ah*8 @48V Trojan T105RE Smart Carbon. MN bkrs box.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2017 #6
    Doing an EQ will mix the electrolyte, check the SG afterwards, do not remove electrolyte and add distilled water, that would dilute it and reduce the SG. Are you following Trojans recommendations for charging voltage etcetera? 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • dapago
    dapago Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭
    edited June 2017 #7
    Yes I am. On that side I think I am ok.
     I was just preoccupied with the electrolyte being cloudy on 1 cell.
    After performing an EQ, will the electrolyte on that particular cell clear up with time or will it always keep this color and cloudiness? 
    there is one thing I have changed on my CC setting and that is the automatic EQ. Before I used to do it manually every month after taking the SG and since 2 months I use the automatic EQ set for  every 30 days
    Off-grid. Midnight Classic 200. 2,480W array. Magnum Inverter MS4448PAE. 225Ah*8 @48V Trojan T105RE Smart Carbon. MN bkrs box.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    In my experience it usually clears, but will appear when performing an EQ, which is, in itself, a controlled over charge, stirring the electrolyte, don't over EQ, it should only be done when needed to prevent cell drift.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • dapago
    dapago Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭
    #9
    When needed? Trojan recommend to EQ  every 30 days. I have read somewhere that it is only needed when SG reading is under the 100 % charge value in float.
    Off-grid. Midnight Classic 200. 2,480W array. Magnum Inverter MS4448PAE. 225Ah*8 @48V Trojan T105RE Smart Carbon. MN bkrs box.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Trojan has recommendations, see link below, under equalization 
    http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    dapago said:
    When needed? Trojan recommend to EQ  every 30 days. I have read somewhere that it is only needed when SG reading is under the 100 % charge value in float.

    I don't think Trojan presents a solid front on this, some manuals state to only equalize when the cells are out of balance, but I can show you a video where they suggest every 30 days.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    dapago said:
    When needed? Trojan recommend to EQ  every 30 days. I have read somewhere that it is only needed when SG reading is under the 100 % charge value in float.

    Photowhit said:

    dapago said:
    When needed? Trojan recommend to EQ  every 30 days. I have read somewhere that it is only needed when SG reading is under the 100 % charge value in float.

    I don't think Trojan presents a solid front on this, some manuals state to only equalize when the cells are out of balance, but I can show you a video where they suggest every 30 days.

    Reading further into the document under discharging it states that : Many experts recommend operating batteries only between the 50% to 85% of full charge range. A periodic equalization charge is a must when using this practice.

    Under Equalization it states : Many experts recommend that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (>0.030) are detected after fully charging a battery.

    Same source
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Funny how they refer to "Many experts." 
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #14

    Marc Kurth said:
    Funny how they refer to "Many experts." 
    Thats what I was wondering,  thought they were the "experts " on their own products, at least.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #15
    It seems to me that there are so many variables - usage patterns, temperature, charging profiles, etc., blanket recommendations aren't all that useful. I tend towards the notion that if it ain't broken, don't fix it.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
    The business model is to sell batteries!
    We do a preventative EQ every 90 days for one hour whether we need it or not.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Just don't wait till it's broken, proactive response to an apparent problem is usually the best approach, in many ways Trojans recommendations of observing SG to determine when to EQ  makes sense, careful monitoring of the battery is essential, they can't cover every situation, in off grid an EQ is probably required more often due to the charge and discharge cycles, but the SG is the real indicator of battery health. Every situation is different, keep your finger on the pulse of your particular system, monitor all parameters, don't focus on one. My opinions some may vary. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #18
    By "broken", I mean when SG is low and/or meaningfully different between cells. I try to check all SGs every couple of months, but have done 1-1.5hr EQs on spec at times if I don't get a regular check done.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Solray
    Solray Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭✭
    #19
    Marc Kurth said:
    Funny how they refer to "Many experts." 
    Everyone thinks they are an expert. :)
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