schneider AGS I only have this to say

the manual for the AGS is so vague and the wording sucks......it is quite literally worded just for a quick connection to generators made with a plug in just for automatic starting

had to call tech support twice because the manual doesnt give a description of what the relays do during starting and running

if someone can tell me for sure how to hook this up to a durostar DS4400e ......otherwise I am gonna hook it up the way I have it figured......I will give the results later as to whether I have a $200 ornament or not and how I wired it if I am successful

Comments

  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016 #2
    I'll get right to it...what I did works, flawlessly (after I fixed my propane conversion bugs) (and a half case of cherry Dr.Pepper)
    heres the wiring pic...wire are not correct color...use the number places...dont use the manuals diagrams...they dont work for this and you will fry your AGS

    disregard where it says type 6 in the pic...in the settings use type 8......that was the only pic I saw that used wire 15
    heres the setting from the defaults you need to change
        in advanced settings
         gen type = 8

    in advance settings > cfg gen

         starter cool down = 3 sec

         gen cool down = 15 sec

         gen spin down = 3 sec

         max runtime = whatever you want

         exercise stuff = whatever you want

    relay 3 = not used

    gen run hold time = 0 sec .....this is important because you are not using a gen run sensing so it will use the ac2 input voltage as sensing

    crank delay = 0 sec

    crank time = 6 sec .... you can set yours where you need it....test while it is cold and see how many seconds it takes for your gen to start

    crank retry time = 3 sec ....I did this in an attempt to capture the propane that was already in the intake side ( not useful after I got my conversion bugs fixed) you can leave it at default or 10 sec

    preheat time  = 0 sec

    gen start retries = 3 ... lets face it...if it doesnt sart after 3 tries on propane....it aint gonna start ( as I found out  or it will start and run wrong)

    the key switched must remain in the off position......before you use the key switch, make sure the AGS is in standby or maual off
    This settings are only for a propane conversion  for a durostar DS4400E

    the wiring diagram is for the same generator......but it should work with a grounded coil ignition system

    thats the reason this was hard to setup....to stop the generator, when the key is turned off, it grounds the coil out...and the AGS manual doesnt tell you enough about functions to let you know this will work

    the reason I did this write up is because after searching the internet for a few weeks, nowhere can this info be found and I know others have been wondering or reluctant to to try

    I will start another discussion about this linking to this thread
  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    by the by...jimmy at schneider is the tops at solar tech support.....he was very patient with me all 4 times I called
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,030 ✭✭✭✭
    Glad you got it working.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I stay away from AGS because i just am really concerned with unattended GEN starts. They can cause really bad things to happen and it is really amazing how failures often give quite a bit of warning if someone is there to notice.

    I am sort of glad you figured it out and Tech Support is really good at Schneider, I have never had problems with them.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    yeah dave....I figure if I'm gonna be gone a few days, I'll set it to standby....... if I'm not using as much power, no need to recharge the batteries and propane has a tendency to backfire when the valves get out of adjustment.....which is what I was talking about when I said I got my conversion bugs fixed, buts thats another story for another day....it's a doozy

  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    I also just got to thinking, for anyone that needs to leave it on for a remote system, it would be good to invest in a good fire suppression system
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I also think that many, not all people overthink the need to charge when they are not home for a few weeks. Your XW and the Outbacks will disconnect loads at LBCO. They will restart when the voltage comes back up.
     If you are not home, all that should be on is the reefer, some lights and the internet. The daily load goes down quite a bit when the humans are not home..... Good Luck!
    Always be nice to Fire People!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,030 ✭✭✭✭
    t00ls said: generator
    So, I took a pic today of the starter on my generator, do you think there is a wire configuration that will work Autostart for me ?

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 872 ✭✭✭✭
    I think you need "Otto" start...seen many years ago in Airplane (the movie) as "Otto" pilot.

    Ralph
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ralph Day said:
    I think you need "Otto" start...seen many years ago in Airplane (the movie) as "Otto" pilot.

    Ralph Right! Also, "picked the wrong day to quit drinking" 
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    t00ls said: generator
    So, I took a pic today of the starter on my generator, do you think there is a wire configuration that will work Autostart for me ?

    you know mike....it took me a bit to see the starter, after I saw it, my engineer side kicked in
         you could come up with a starter motor with an offset disk and I'm sure you could use the same setup I did but just use the relays inside of the AGS to operate relays for the starter

    how do you like the lister
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,030 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016 #13
    t00ls said:  how do you like the lister
    It's a marvel of KISS engineering.  It works really well, if I remember to change to synthetic oil for the winter.  It's a high compression diesel (Lister CS = Cold Start) and without a glow plug starts on the first compression stroke down to freezing (32F)  Cooler than that, i have to grunt through 2 or 3 compressions before it actually fires.  If I have 30wt (all they made in the 1920's) in the crankcase, I can't get it going fast enough at 50F.  And the alternator, even though it's got brushes, outperforms any modern alternator for overload and power factor, blow dryer and toaster and charging.    But I have trouble getting good mounting bolts, modern Chinese stuff is too soft, and stretches out, grade 5 + is too brittle to hold up to the pounding,

    http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister-Running

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭✭
    Mike, link doesn't want work even when in FB
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Volvo made a similar saiiboat auxillary diesil engine. It was OK in the tropics but sent many to the emergency room up in the north where it is cold. Be careful or you will be on pain pills!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,030 ✭✭✭✭
    Mike, link doesn't want work even when in FB
    odd, works ok for me, using the tiny url   Sorry.   Anyway, there are a bunch of lister 6/1 videos on you tube
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭✭
    hmmmmm

     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,030 ✭✭✭✭
    OK, now it's set to public.  sorry about the runaround  http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister-Running 

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
     :) :) :) to date...still working

    I still have 1 tiny problem that could be fixed if I knew where the to connect the motor run sensing at....currently the AGS uses AC2 input voltage sensing to see if the motor is running

    sometimes the motor will start and the voltage doesnt rise quick enough, and then shuts off right away
    and other times it does kinda the same as above, but then realizes the motor is running and comes back on right away

    but most of the time,if the valves are adjusted right for propane (uhhg) it will start up and stay running to it hits the presets

    now the other problem I have been dealing with doesnt have to do with the AGS....the damned exhaust valve keeps getting out of adjustment...getting tighter, no play in it....cant figure out why it does it

    when it happens, the motor will be hard to start and sometimes backfires, which lets me know it's time to go back out ( in the cold) and readjust the valve

    the intake side is not doing this...any thoughts on this
  • AguarancherAguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 276 ✭✭✭
    It’s common on air cooled engines for the exhaust valve to tighten up. Anyone that’s ever owned a VW can vouch for that. Make sure there are no burrs on the lock nut surface. I usually leave the valve an extra thousand or two clearance. Hard to burn up a loose valve. Might also check to make sure the airflow on the cylinder isn’t blocked up by anything.
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 2,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #21
    mike95490 said:
    t00ls said: generator
    So, I took a pic today of the starter on my generator, do you think there is a wire configuration that will work Autostart for me ?


    Seems we have a common problem with AGS, 10Hp single cylinder water cooled 598 cc Kubota clone diesel, 5 Kw alternator. Kubota have an electric start at double the price. Massive flywheel on the other side.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    900W  3 × 300W No name brand Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal as a backup system. 
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergencies and welding.
  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    well, that $300 3500 watt generator almost crapped out on me......so I bought a reddy 7000 watt with a honda gx390 13hp motor

    with the gen support turned on to 18...I'm charging at 60 amps or less....and.....dun dun dun.......my lights dont flicker when the refrigerator compressor comes on....even when I turn on the water heater.....and the cooking stove....and my small AC unit.....all at the same time

    still had to hook up the xantrex AGS the same way as the diagram shows........wires 15 and 16 go between the coil ground wire and the key switch box ( they made this one simple...just unplug the connector and run 15 to one side and 16 to the other , doesnt matter which one)

    the 17 and 18 connect to the battery and solenoid ...again, doesnt matter which one goes to the battery or which one goes to the starter solenoid

    set the generator type to 7 and configure the settings for your starter crank time and then configure the triggers for when it is to start up

    hope this helps someone

    by the by......make sure the key is off ...( yeah, I left mine on and couldnt figure out why it wouldnt shut off ).....( took me 10 minutes to figure it out because the key fell out of the switch )
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hate it when the keys fall out :)  In some places if you don't have any keys, they lock you up 51/50 !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    t00ls said:


    disregard where it says type 6 in the pic...in the settings use type 8......that was the only pic I saw that used wire 15
    heres the setting from the defaults you need to change
        in advanced settings
         gen type = 8

    it should have said type 7...dont know why I put 8

    and I cant figure out how to edit the original post


  • slovencslovenc Registered Users Posts: 1

    Hello
    I need suport, I have a new EU70is Honda generator, and I would like to connection on Schneider Conext AGS. I have on the autostart Honda generator connector 5 pin ( remotecontrol connector ),
    W/Bu -main switch –
    Br/Bu-main switch +
    W/G -push switch2
    G/Bu – pl remote
    G- Gnd .

    What wiring type of should I use? on manual I can not find the right type.
    It should be one relay to make a contact stendby ( function of the key on ON or OFF  the generator) and
    relay 2 to make contact signal 0,5-1-S for the ignition of the engine


    https://41j5tc3akbrn3uezx5av0jj1bgm-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Conext-AGS-Owners-Guide975-0307-01-01_Rev-G_ENG.pdf

    I wrote to the schnaider, but the answer was, that the binding scheme  ( type 13) is the same as Honda eu 6500is ( link ).

    Generator EU70is not the same as EU 6500is :/

    https://www.schneider-electric.ca/en/faqs/FA222135/

    httpsscreenshotscdnfirefoxusercontentcomimagesd501cab1-7aca-461a-b84c-95f37aed04cepng

    Please help if there is any other way wiring

    thenks












  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    slovenc said:

    Hello
    I need suport, I have a new EU70is Honda generator, and I would like to connection on Schneider Conext AGS. I have on the autostart Honda generator connector 5 pin ( remotecontrol connector ),
    W/Bu -main switch –
    Br/Bu-main switch +
    W/G -push switch2
    G/Bu – pl remote
    G- Gnd .

    What wiring type of should I use? on manual I can not find the right type.
    It should be one relay to make a contact stendby ( function of the key on ON or OFF  the generator) and
    relay 2 to make contact signal 0,5-1-S for the ignition of the engine


    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    I would need more info
    what inverter
    what Charge controller

    if you dont have a trace/xantrex/schneider XW inverter ans XW scp at the minimum.....you cannot use the AGS from schneider

    provide the info and I may be able to help












  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,030 ✭✭✭✭
    When you bought the Schneider gear, you should have gotten a manual which describes the control functions the AGS provides.  Not all generator have the normal 3 wire interface
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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