Is there such thing as a inverter/charge controller that can have these features?

jimmyaz
jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
edited January 2017 in General Solar Power Topics #1
Hey guys,

Is there something out in the market than can do all of the following?

1.  Accept solar panel input (meaning you hook your solar panel to it and run on MPPT to charge your battery bank)
2.  Input 24/48 volt battery bank and it invert power
3.  Connected to the GRID to use power and pass grid as grid support mode BUT DOES NOT FEED THE GRID.  But it can pass power through from the grid so it can sustain bigger load.
4.  If battery is low charge the battery using the grid
5.  Split phase (for US use)

I know hybrid inveter such as the Outback Radian and Conext SW can do all the thing, except it is not a MPPT charge controller, meaning it doesn't take solar input direct.

Thank you.


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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Victron makes some "Easy Solar" models that do what you want with out the split phase. Might see if they have or are developing one for the US market. I they make some 120v charger/inverters and they can be configured in a split phase (they likely have a single unit, but I'm not that familiar with them.) Maybe this will help...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    There seem to be plenty of these for other than USA 120/240 Vac.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hybrid-Solar-Inverter-SP5000Brilliant-Plus-5KVA-4000W-Built-in-3MPPT-charger180A-/162208413445?hash=item25c45ff705:g:v6EAAOSwM4xXakTF

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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  • jimmyaz
    jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    #4
    Unfortunately, a split phase would be a must.. .since I have both 120/220 that I want to run on.


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  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    #5

    I know hybrid inveter such as the Outback Radian and Conext SW can do all the thing, except it is not a MPPT charge controller, meaning it doesn't take solar input direct.

    Any particular reason you don't want to use a separate charge controller?
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  • jimmyaz
    jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    #6
    bill von novak said:

    I know hybrid inveter such as the Outback Radian and Conext SW can do all the thing, except it is not a MPPT charge controller, meaning it doesn't take solar input direct.

    Any particular reason you don't want to use a separate charge controller?
    Well... no big reason, I actually already have charge controller, a MIdnite Classic 150.  Just thought having a all in one unit would be....

    1.  Cost saving, you wouldn't need all the extra box, breaker, fuses... ect.
    2.  The monitoring... since different brand of charge controller and inverter can not talk to each other... it would be hard to monitor both...
    3.  Cleaner install....


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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #7

    There is always the MidNite Solar B17 Inverter/Charger/CC.

    This is still in development,   and will probably be available late this year.   It will not be inexpensive,  as it is really a high-end,  scalable product line.

    FYI,  Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • jimmyaz
    jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    #8
    Vic said:

    There is always the MidNite Solar B17 Inverter/Charger/CC.

    This is still in development,   and will probably be available late this year.   It will not be inexpensive,  as it is really a high-end,  scalable product line.

    FYI,  Vic

    I have heard that they are working on the inverter, but didn't see the actual picture till now... That's cool and weird looking.  :)  So I guess they are module, so each model is 2kw?  Do you know if they have pass through capability and if so, how much?

    Also, what's inexpensive?  :)  To some people 5,000 is inexpensive.  But to me, 5k take a long time to balance out the cost. 
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #9

    Hi jimmyaz,

    Yea,   these  will  probably represent a very good value,  but I did use a double-negative,   saying,  "they will NOT be inexpensive".

    They should have every capability  --  Grid-interactive,  off-grid,   etc.

    Yes,  they are very modular,  so one can add what is needed at the beginning,  and add more capability later.  And the amount of ability to add additional modules later,   will probably come in several sizes,   etc.

    BUT,  this product line will be in the same price range as similar-sized top-notch inverter/chargers in the market now,  like the Outback,   Schneider Conext,   etc,   and the ability to increase power levels at a later time,  may well add some premium (aka,  a bit more cost) in the initial configuration,  especially if the initial system is a bit on the smallish size.

    Just thought I would throw this out there ...

    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    jimmyaz said:

    1.  Cost saving, you wouldn't need all the extra box, breaker, fuses... ect.
    2.  The monitoring... since different brand of charge controller and inverter can not talk to each other... it would be hard to monitor both...
    3.  Cleaner install....
    All those things would be nice.  But it's also nice to have the freedom to choose your input voltage and current ratings, and I would point out that products like the Epanel make for very clean installs.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    I did not think the Midnite unit would handle different input voltages?

    The only system that I could think of that would handle different input voltages was the Heart Transverter, it will do PV input but will only do battery banks from12-36 volts... and won't do split phase, to my knowledge.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Photowhit said:I did not think the Midnite unit would handle different input voltages?
    The Midnite Classic is available in 150, 200 and 250 volt input versions.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
    bill von novak said:
    Photowhit said:I did not think the Midnite unit would handle different input voltages?
    The Midnite Classic is available in 150, 200 and 250 volt input versions.

    Inverter input... We were discussing the new Midnite inverter system.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • jimmyaz
    jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    #14
    Darn... I am now facing the decision to wait for the B17 or get the Conext SW set up...

    If I only I know the pricing of the B17, would be much easier.... :disappointed:
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Also add Outback Skybox. You going to have to wait a bit longer. The Conext line for advanced batteries should have pricing at the end of February.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • jimmyaz
    jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    #16
    Dave Angelini said:
    Also add Outback Skybox. You going to have to wait a bit longer. The Conext line for advanced batteries should have pricing at the end of February.
    Conext is releasing a new inverter for advance batteries, like lithium ion ect? Any link for any more infos or specs?

    Also, does anyone know if the current Conext 4048, what's the power rating for the bypass?  I see on the data sheet it said 30amps, but I call Conext last week and the guy told me 60amps.  Is it 30amps per phase total 60amps?

    thanks all


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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    The CSW is 30 amps either for the NA split phase model or the rest of the world. The XW+ is 60 amps.

    There is some info in my thread here. The pricing info is really for the batteries as the "bridge is not scheduled until 2nd half of 2017.
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/351297/conext-bridge-for-xw-li-ions-from-lg-and-hoppecke-announced-for-2nd-half-2017#latest
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • jimmyaz
    jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    #18
    Dave Angelini said:
    The CSW is 30 amps either for the NA split phase model or the rest of the world. The XW+ is 60 amps.

    There is some info in my thread here. The pricing info is really for the batteries as the "bridge is not scheduled until 2nd half of 2017.
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/351297/conext-bridge-for-xw-li-ions-from-lg-and-hoppecke-announced-for-2nd-half-2017#latest
    So the 30amps at 240v mean the maximum grid power I can use is 7.2kw.  But I am confused as of why the AC Box offer 8 breaker slot...  Assuming each slot is fitted with the smallest breaker 10amps X 8 = 80amps.  But can only use 30 amps?  How is that going to work?  Wouldn't that be against code?




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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #19
    If you do some reading on the subject you will find that most inverter/chargers are rated at the AC amps in/out.
    It is the transfer of power. I also think you are confusing the fact that when a panel is sized, there is room for more circuit protection than the panel is rated for as by "code" it is assumed that you will not run everything at once. If you did, the main circuit breaker in the panel would trip. The Inverter is only going to supply it's rated power + the internal battery charger. In bypass mode a CSW can pass 30A @ 240vac.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • jimmyaz
    jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    #20
    Dave Angelini said:
    If you do some reading on the subject you will find that most inverter/chargers are rated at the AC amps in/out.
    It is the transfer of power. I also think you are confusing the fact that when a panel is sized, there is room for more circuit protection than the panel is rated for as by "code" it is assumed that you will not run everything at once. If you did, the main circuit breaker in the panel would trip. The Inverter is only going to supply it's rated power + the internal battery charger. In bypass mode a CSW can pass 30A @ 240vac.
    So if I install this, I would put a 30amp twin breaker in my Main panel, this connect to the Con SW AC input.  Then connected all of my load breaker into the Con SW AC Panel, but I can install 8x 30amps (30amps or smaller per each breaker)?  I can then only pull the maximum 7kw on grid only and another 4kw if my battery is good and the inverter mode is working?


    Now I have dout that my 3tons AC condenser could start with just the 30amps... On theory it should, because currently on my main panel a 30amps twin breaker is installed.  But I am worry that, if I connect my kitchen line in and possibly if the microwave is running, then it probably isn't going to be enough .

    Thanks Dave for answering all my dumb question.  :)





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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #21
    A CSW is 30 amps in max. The output can be from the inverter or the grid/generator but not both. There is also self consumption software to use the solar only. The CSW can't sell power like the XW+ can. The CSW can run from 120 or 240 grid/gen which is nice for some as the XW+ is only 240 in from grid/gen.

     I have a couple XW's that have never had any AC input   :)

    There is an internal 30A dual pole breaker in the CSW. But you do need to protect the wiring from your main panel to the CSW so yes another breaker.

    You can add a second CSW to increase the amperage or buy the XW+ which is 60A.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • jimmyaz
    jimmyaz Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭
    #22
    Dave Angelini said:
    A CSW is 30 amps in max. The output can be from the inverter or the grid/generator but not both.
    But it's does have a total capacity of out puting 7kw from grid + 4000kw from battery giving AC output of 11kw right?


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