Is there such thing as a inverter/charge controller that can have these features?

jimmyaz

Hey guys,

Is there something out in the market than can do all of the following?

1.  Accept solar panel input (meaning you hook your solar panel to it and run on MPPT to charge your battery bank)
2.  Input 24/48 volt battery bank and it invert power
3.  Connected to the GRID to use power and pass grid as grid support mode BUT DOES NOT FEED THE GRID.  But it can pass power through from the grid so it can sustain bigger load.
4.  If battery is low charge the battery using the grid
5.  Split phase (for US use)

I know hybrid inveter such as the Outback Radian and Conext SW can do all the thing, except it is not a MPPT charge controller, meaning it doesn't take solar input direct.

Thank you.

Photowhit

Victron makes some "Easy Solar" models that do what you want with out the split phase. Might see if they have or are developing one for the US market. I they make some 120v charger/inverters and they can be configured in a split phase (they likely have a single unit, but I'm not that familiar with them.) Maybe this will help...

littleharbor2

There seem to be plenty of these for other than USA 120/240 Vac.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hybrid-Solar-Inverter-SP5000Brilliant-Plus-5KVA-4000W-Built-in-3MPPT-charger180A-/162208413445?hash=item25c45ff705:g:v6EAAOSwM4xXakTF

jimmyaz

Unfortunately, a split phase would be a must.. .since I have both 120/220 that I want to run on.

bill von novak

I know hybrid inveter such as the Outback Radian and Conext SW can do all the thing, except it is not a MPPT charge controller, meaning it doesn't take solar input direct.

Any particular reason you don't want to use a separate charge controller?

jimmyaz

bill von novak said:

I know hybrid inveter such as the Outback Radian and Conext SW can do all the thing, except it is not a MPPT charge controller, meaning it doesn't take solar input direct.

Any particular reason you don't want to use a separate charge controller?

Well... no big reason, I actually already have charge controller, a MIdnite Classic 150.  Just thought having a all in one unit would be....

1.  Cost saving, you wouldn't need all the extra box, breaker, fuses... ect.
2.  The monitoring... since different brand of charge controller and inverter can not talk to each other... it would be hard to monitor both...
3.  Cleaner install....

Vic

There is always the MidNite Solar B17 Inverter/Charger/CC.

This is still in development,   and will probably be available late this year.   It will not be inexpensive,  as it is really a high-end,  scalable product line.

FYI,  Vic

jimmyaz

Vic said:

There is always the MidNite Solar B17 Inverter/Charger/CC.

This is still in development,   and will probably be available late this year.   It will not be inexpensive,  as it is really a high-end,  scalable product line.

FYI,  Vic

I have heard that they are working on the inverter, but didn't see the actual picture till now... That's cool and weird looking.    So I guess they are module, so each model is 2kw?  Do you know if they have pass through capability and if so, how much?

Also, what's inexpensive?    To some people 5,000 is inexpensive.  But to me, 5k take a long time to balance out the cost. 

Vic

Hi jimmyaz,

Yea,   these  will  probably represent a very good value,  but I did use a double-negative,   saying,  "they will NOT be inexpensive".

They should have every capability  --  Grid-interactive,  off-grid,   etc.

Yes,  they are very modular,  so one can add what is needed at the beginning,  and add more capability later.  And the amount of ability to add additional modules later,   will probably come in several sizes,   etc.

BUT,  this product line will be in the same price range as similar-sized top-notch inverter/chargers in the market now,  like the Outback,   Schneider Conext,   etc,   and the ability to increase power levels at a later time,  may well add some premium (aka,  a bit more cost) in the initial configuration,  especially if the initial system is a bit on the smallish size.

Just thought I would throw this out there ...

Vic

bill von novak

jimmyaz said:

1.  Cost saving, you wouldn't need all the extra box, breaker, fuses... ect.
2.  The monitoring... since different brand of charge controller and inverter can not talk to each other... it would be hard to monitor both...
3.  Cleaner install....

All those things would be nice.  But it's also nice to have the freedom to choose your input voltage and current ratings, and I would point out that products like the Epanel make for very clean installs.

Photowhit

I did not think the Midnite unit would handle different input voltages?

The only system that I could think of that would handle different input voltages was the Heart Transverter, it will do PV input but will only do battery banks from12-36 volts... and won't do split phase, to my knowledge.

bill von novak

Photowhit said:I did not think the Midnite unit would handle different input voltages?

The Midnite Classic is available in 150, 200 and 250 volt input versions.

Photowhit

bill von novak said:

Photowhit said:I did not think the Midnite unit would handle different input voltages?

The Midnite Classic is available in 150, 200 and 250 volt input versions.

Inverter input... We were discussing the new Midnite inverter system.

jimmyaz

Darn... I am now facing the decision to wait for the B17 or get the Conext SW set up...

If I only I know the pricing of the B17, would be much easier....

Dave Angelini

Also add Outback Skybox. You going to have to wait a bit longer. The Conext line for advanced batteries should have pricing at the end of February.

jimmyaz

Dave Angelini said:

Also add Outback Skybox. You going to have to wait a bit longer. The Conext line for advanced batteries should have pricing at the end of February.

Conext is releasing a new inverter for advance batteries, like lithium ion ect? Any link for any more infos or specs?

Also, does anyone know if the current Conext 4048, what's the power rating for the bypass?  I see on the data sheet it said 30amps, but I call Conext last week and the guy told me 60amps.  Is it 30amps per phase total 60amps?

thanks all

Dave Angelini

The CSW is 30 amps either for the NA split phase model or the rest of the world. The XW+ is 60 amps.

There is some info in my thread here. The pricing info is really for the batteries as the "bridge is not scheduled until 2nd half of 2017.
http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/351297/conext-bridge-for-xw-li-ions-from-lg-and-hoppecke-announced-for-2nd-half-2017#latest

jimmyaz

Dave Angelini said:

The CSW is 30 amps either for the NA split phase model or the rest of the world. The XW+ is 60 amps.

There is some info in my thread here. The pricing info is really for the batteries as the "bridge is not scheduled until 2nd half of 2017.
http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/351297/conext-bridge-for-xw-li-ions-from-lg-and-hoppecke-announced-for-2nd-half-2017#latest

So the 30amps at 240v mean the maximum grid power I can use is 7.2kw.  But I am confused as of why the AC Box offer 8 breaker slot...  Assuming each slot is fitted with the smallest breaker 10amps X 8 = 80amps.  But can only use 30 amps?  How is that going to work?  Wouldn't that be against code?

Dave Angelini

If you do some reading on the subject you will find that most inverter/chargers are rated at the AC amps in/out.
It is the transfer of power. I also think you are confusing the fact that when a panel is sized, there is room for more circuit protection than the panel is rated for as by "code" it is assumed that you will not run everything at once. If you did, the main circuit breaker in the panel would trip. The Inverter is only going to supply it's rated power + the internal battery charger. In bypass mode a CSW can pass 30A @ 240vac.

jimmyaz

Dave Angelini said:

If you do some reading on the subject you will find that most inverter/chargers are rated at the AC amps in/out.
It is the transfer of power. I also think you are confusing the fact that when a panel is sized, there is room for more circuit protection than the panel is rated for as by "code" it is assumed that you will not run everything at once. If you did, the main circuit breaker in the panel would trip. The Inverter is only going to supply it's rated power + the internal battery charger. In bypass mode a CSW can pass 30A @ 240vac.

So if I install this, I would put a 30amp twin breaker in my Main panel, this connect to the Con SW AC input.  Then connected all of my load breaker into the Con SW AC Panel, but I can install 8x 30amps (30amps or smaller per each breaker)?  I can then only pull the maximum 7kw on grid only and another 4kw if my battery is good and the inverter mode is working?


Now I have dout that my 3tons AC condenser could start with just the 30amps... On theory it should, because currently on my main panel a 30amps twin breaker is installed.  But I am worry that, if I connect my kitchen line in and possibly if the microwave is running, then it probably isn't going to be enough .

Thanks Dave for answering all my dumb question. 

Dave Angelini

A CSW is 30 amps in max. The output can be from the inverter or the grid/generator but not both. There is also self consumption software to use the solar only. The CSW can't sell power like the XW+ can. The CSW can run from 120 or 240 grid/gen which is nice for some as the XW+ is only 240 in from grid/gen.

 I have a couple XW's that have never had any AC input  

There is an internal 30A dual pole breaker in the CSW. But you do need to protect the wiring from your main panel to the CSW so yes another breaker.

You can add a second CSW to increase the amperage or buy the XW+ which is 60A.

jimmyaz

Dave Angelini said:

A CSW is 30 amps in max. The output can be from the inverter or the grid/generator but not both.

But it's does have a total capacity of out puting 7kw from grid + 4000kw from battery giving AC output of 11kw right?